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Star Trek: Picard

Chiletrek

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Hello:
Indeed the values established in both TOS and expanded on TNG were truly put to test on DS9, starting from the location where the events take place, away from the core of the Federation and then the Dominion war, which was not only a war for survival but also a war to not lose yourself in the process.
 
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TUB_Husker

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Hey, yes, I like the point with "not lose yourself in the process" and this happened too: Admiral Leeton, he was not without values, that was he made to the evil guy was his acting.

At the moment I think, whether this concerns civil rights, politics or Kurtzi Trek, the symbols have become more important than the values behind the symbols.
 

obriensucks

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I feel like the broad strokes of the season were not bad (i.e. Picard and Data switching places, by having Data finally fully realize his humanity, and Picard becoming an android), but the execution was a real snooze fest. Since I've been rewatching DS9 concurrently, the juxtaposition in writing quality of the two shows is especially jarring.
 
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TUB_Husker

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Data finally fully realize his humanity


This I read before, never truly understand. What is a human and what make him humanly? In case of Evolution is Data and Picard different. Picard is result of biology evolution and Data is result of intellectuel Evolution. Beside this, I would say Data was the whole time of his existence humanly.
He had to find his place in the world like a human being, he learned, he developed character, humor, he found friends, family. Like humans. Ok his emotional expression was on a other level, which humans never understand, but I am sure he had emotional states.
The death say nothing about human being, it is the end of existence. To call Data humanly is based in his actions, behavior e.c..
Death does not complete the existence or humanly of data, it is the end of existence and where there is no existence there is no humanly or anything. In this context, I find that with the "completion of humanity through death" a romantic glittering of death.
 

Chiletrek

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I always thought that Data's real death, on "Star Trek: Nemesis", was very meaningful in his way to be more human (in the best sense) because he actually sacrificed himself to save Picard, that brief moment when Data knew he was not going back and how Picard realized it the very moment he was been transported back to the Enterprise was great and extremely sad.
 
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TUB_Husker

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was very meaningful in his way to be more human
I agree, I would say the decision to sacrifice himself to protect someone else made him human, not death in itself. Data could not learn a lesson (become more human) from death because he ceased to exist. Death didn't broaden his horizons because there was no Data left. Or in other words, others can only judge my death, meaningful, painful, quiet, fast, terrible, etc., for me as a dead person it has no meaning anymore and I am sure Data only thought to save his friend and not thinking on a meaningful death.
Difficult subject and a little depressing, sorry for that.
 

Chiletrek

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Don't worry, I suppose it had to be addressed at some point.
 

dvatreknerd314

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The more I watch Mass Effect let's plays the more I realize Star Trek Picard should have been called Star Trek Mass Effect.
 

Blake00

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I saw a really good post in another forum's Trek thread by a guy named Cogwork Scholar about Picard that I figured I'd quote here. It contains Picard spoilers so I'll spoiler tag it.

"Ah, yes, the new child of "modern" Trek.

What mess have they made...

Honestly, both STD, STP and the new Lower Decks have been on my mind as of late, not only because I consider myself a Star Trek fan, worried about the future of his franchise, but also from some professional curiosity, observing the philosophical implications of current ideologies expressed in culture and media. That said, I am disappointed both in the direction of this new revival of the franchise and in its failure of being what it so intently tries to be.

Unlike a large portion of fans, I don't have aesthetic problems with the show, although the way in which that new aesthetics narratively influences the show(dark military type of bridge instead of the well lit white/beige textures from the past, inducing the feel of a ship made for war, not exploration) is troubling. I can even welcome this attempt at critique of the old Star Trek, presenting a dark dystopian themed exploration of its universe. For once, the "final frontier" is supposed to be dangerous and unforgiving. Often, no amount of ingenuity can save the ones facing that unknown from disaster. Space holds insurmountable dangers, but Star Trek has always tried to rub off the edges of that realization. STD and STP, however, are not really trying to be "dark" and they most certainly are not trying to critique and explore the utopian themes of the previous franchise. They are inducing senseless cruelty, in an unsuccessful attempt to be surprising and really... nothing more that that. The show runners are trying to reproduce the glory of Game of Thrones, only to show a total lack of understanding about both it and Star Trek. What made the violence in Game of Thrones so effective was that it was never truly random. It was always presented as a narrative thread binding the fictional world of the series. When Joffrey became king, starting to use and kill people on a whim, it spoke not only about his character, but about the cultural Zeitgeist of the feudal society, which put him there in the first place. What did the senseless and brutal killing of Icheb or Hugh tell us about the world of Picard (other than the misconceived attempt of the writers to empower female characters)? That there are some bad people in it ? Well BOOO-HOOO ! In the twin episodes of "Year of Hell" from VOY, we were presented with a genocide on a level which would make Hitler look like a dumb schoolyard bully! It seems that doing a proper job as a sci-fi series, by presenting the implications of ideas and technologies under the control of people with different morality standpoints, is obviously seen as too boring or intellectually challenging for the audience, which definitely means that STP and STD are taking their cues from the wrong shows.

If the writers really wanted to make a substantive critique of Star Trek, they would have first understood the main driving force behind the narrative of the show, which is curiosity. The Federation was never utopian on the basis of some particular technical or political magic fix. ST tried to establish that space exploration, the curiosity toward the unknown and the different, can ennoble us as a species, much like the vision of Carl Sagan in his phenomenal "Cosmos". But there is no curiosity in the new Trek, no passion for exploration, dialogue and understanding, other than a forcefully induced or a preached one. There is no real narrative role for science and discovery other in a few isolated examples in STD, or awkward forced comments in the style of Spock's "I like science". This is why, I believe that the new franchise fails to stand up to the challenge and the name of its predecessor. It also fails to inspire the next generation of scientists and intellectuals as well, as the previous one did."

His last line makes a very important point. Star Trek of old inspired so many people. Who the hell is gonna be inspired to be a scientist, astronaut, engineer, or to at least try to make the word a better place or support those that do after watching Picard lol?

.
 

Majestic

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Showrunners have admitted Worf was Captain of the Enterprise E after Picard
Make's Worf's response about the E and the crew's reaction make more sense.
 

Blake00

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I still haven't watched season 2 of 'Patrick Stewart goes to space' as i was just so turned off by that first season. However I'd have to be blind not to see all the positive posts across twitter and facebook etc about season 3. I'm trying to avoid spoilers but can see it ticking all the nostalgia boxes which is exactly what the first season SHOULD have been lol. Hopefully I can get to S2 & 3 soon to judge for myself! Maybe I'll even start calling it Picard again! :lol:
 

Adm_Z

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I still haven't watched season 2 of 'Patrick Stewart goes to space' as i was just so turned off by that first season. However I'd have to be blind not to see all the positive posts across twitter and facebook etc about season 3. I'm trying to avoid spoilers but can see it ticking all the nostalgia boxes which is exactly what the first season SHOULD have been lol. Hopefully I can get to S2 & 3 soon to judge for myself! Maybe I'll even start calling it Picard again! :lol:
I didn't personally hate season 1 but for some reason I never got into season 2. Just started watching and so far, very disappointed only in that they spend more time hating on "today" and less time showing us how the future is better. Very non-trek of them, IMO.
 

Majestic

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I didn't personally hate season 1 but for some reason I never got into season 2. Just started watching and so far, very disappointed only in that they spend more time hating on "today" and less time showing us how the future is better. Very non-trek of them, IMO.
I agree, modern Trek except for SNW seems to loss the concept of what Trek is, about a better brighter future rather than being dark and gritty version of today. I've found this in STD and STP particularly.
 

Darius_Trent

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I think Season 2 started strong but finished poorly. Terry Matalas apparently didn't take charge of the latter half of season 2 so he could focus on season 3 (which to be fair, blows everything else out of the water IMO). The development and writing of the second half was left to a separate team, so it makes sense that the quality did degrade.

All in all, I wouldn't say Trek has lost it's optimism per se. While the situation in Discovery looks dire, keep in mind that
the Federation is growing again. The future is looking brighter and better
. Picard I would say has shown an optimistic Federation ever since that first season 2 episode, although we didn't spend a lot of time exploring that revitalised Federation due to Q's shennanigens.
 

SciFiFan

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I agree, modern Trek except for SNW seems to loss the concept of what Trek is, about a better brighter future rather than being dark and gritty version of today. I've found this in STD and STP particularly.
I think the dark tones fit for Discovery. It starts off in a dark time for the Federation with the Klingon War.
I never understood why they went this route with Picard though.

This doesn't bode well for me finishing the season :lol2:

I guess I'll slog through it since everyone raves about season 3
The good thing is that there is no need to watch previous seasons. There are things that are loosely referenced but there is no real connection between them.

How about Walter Koenig as President Anton Chekov? It was great to hear Walter's voice in Trek again and it was a beautiful nod to Anton Yelchin.
 

Zelph

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Saw Season 1. I consider it good science-fiction, but poor Trek. Decided to skip Season 2. Season 3, however, was absolutely phenomenal. Was in happy tears at the end of the last episode.
 

Majestic

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How about Walter Koenig as President Anton Chekov? It was great to hear Walter's voice in Trek again and it was a beautiful nod to Anton Yelchin.

Yes I really liked that myself. Not sure how I feel about renaming the Titan, but love that Seven is in command. That's great to see an older Trek character in command. Though I was really hoping Worf would get command of the next Enterprise.
 

Hellkite

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"Given'' Worf was in command of the E as her captain when she was lost ... It was highly unlikely

But I'm over joyed that the F is no more :D"
 

Majestic

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"Given'' Worf was in command of the E as her captain when she was lost ... It was highly unlikely

But I'm over joyed that the F is no more :D"
Well Picard was given a second Enterprise as did Kirk so was hoping he is my favourite Trek character and I know Dorn has been wanting to do more Worf for decades. Ever since Ds9 has ended. In fact before he went to Ds9 there was talk of him being on Voyager.
It's just a fan hope I guess. After reading the novels before they stopped it looked like he was going to be given the E.
 

Darius_Trent

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I'll admit, I'm a bit sad to see the F go, but I'm all for a Star Trek: Legacy series with Seven, Raffi and Jack. Hopefully they let Terry Matalas develop it so we can get even more great Trek in future!
 

SciFiFan

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Yes I really liked that myself. Not sure how I feel about renaming the Titan, but love that Seven is in command. That's great to see an older Trek character in command. Though I was really hoping Worf would get command of the next Enterprise.
I agree. It does seem odd to renaming one legacy ship to another. It would have been great if it was a new ship sitting next to the Titan of the same class. Or like when at the end of Star Trek 4 the crew flew over the Excelsior to reveal the Enterprise A.

I also found it odd in season 2 that the Excelsior was not considered a legacy ship. It should have been NCC-2000-A.
 

Chiletrek

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As I mentioned someone on DeviantArt, I really didn't mind the renaming, but is just I never liked the Titan-A's design. Instead I would have loved to see a ship like the Stargazer
 

Majestic

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I agree. It does seem odd to renaming one legacy ship to another. It would have been great if it was a new ship sitting next to the Titan of the same class. Or like when at the end of Star Trek 4 the crew flew over the Excelsior to reveal the Enterprise A.

I also found it odd in season 2 that the Excelsior was not considered a legacy ship. It should have been NCC-2000-A.

As I mentioned someone on DeviantArt, I really didn't mind the renaming, but is just I never liked the Titan-A's design. Instead I would have loved to see a ship like the Stargazer

I think these two opinions are the main ones with the fans, renaming the Titan and the class itself being underwhelming for the Enterprise after the E and F designs. I think fans were hoping for either the F surviving or a new class entirely being named the G. I myself feel the G should've been a new ship, different class to the Titan, they could've reused the interior sets without issue, like the did with the Stargazer and Titan. But a slightly larger design would've been my preference. Transfer the crew as a reward for their heroism in saving Earth and the Federation. Seven as Captain of the G is great, would've preferred Worf but Seven is a happy second for me. Plus having Jack and the LaForge sisters is great imo.
 

Chiletrek

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The Stargazer0's design was great and I agree that a transfer due to heroism into a brand new ship. Although Iunderstand why they did what they did, afterall that small ship was key in saving the Federation so it doesn't matter the size of your ship but what you do with it
 

Majestic

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The Stargazer0's design was great and I agree that a transfer due to heroism into a brand new ship. Although Iunderstand why they did what they did, afterall that small ship was key in saving the Federation so it doesn't matter the size of your ship but what you do with it
Yes I can see why they did what they did. I'm not overly fond of the design myself. Having the Titan designed or decommissioned for the Museum and a new ship awarded to them would've been my preference. But it is what it is and could've been worse. Not trying to be negative and I do look forward if they do continue the story arc with Seven and the G.
 

Adm_Z

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lol so many spoilers... I don't even want to read the last 9-10 messages.

Just finished Season 2. Completely pointless and rather dumb imo... Season 3 better live up to all the hype :p
 

Chiletrek

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Yes I can see why they did what they did. I'm not overly fond of the design myself. Having the Titan designed or decommissioned for the Museum and a new ship awarded to them would've been my preference. But it is what it is and could've been worse. Not trying to be negative and I do look forward if they do continue the story arc with Seven and the G.
Don't worry, I felt no negativism, maybe iut is because new-Trek has been so filled with bad stuff (in and out of universe) that we all fell.... cautious, to say the lkeast, about every decision they take
lol so many spoilers... I don't even want to read the last 9-10 messages.

Just finished Season 2. Completely pointless and rather dumb imo... Season 3 better live up to all the hype :p
That is indeed the beauty of the spoiler tags :thumbsup: .
I sure hope so too!
 

Majestic

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lol so many spoilers... I don't even want to read the last 9-10 messages.

Just finished Season 2. Completely pointless and rather dumb imo... Season 3 better live up to all the hype :p
First 2 seasons were pretty bad, it's what Patrick Stewart wanted, no Starfleet ship, no reunion and no uniforms. But after poor ratings the production changed and told him we're doing this and was a hell of a lot more successful.
 

Chiletrek

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First 2 seasons were pretty bad, it's what Patrick Stewart wanted, no Starfleet ship, no reunion and no uniforms. But after poor ratings the production changed and told him we're doing this and was a hell of a lot more successful.
So that is why the series was nicknamed "Patrick Stewart in space"?
 
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