Star Trek: Picard

[Croatian Klingon]

I think it is best to wait for the full show, they still have some time to fix Kurtzman's mess made by his lack of talent. Honestly, i don't care if it is Data, Lore or B4 as long as it is good character and story is good.

 

[Archonon]

Data should have stayed dead.

Like Spock's absurd metaphysical/supernatural/out of nowhere "Vulcans can now transfer their souls to other bodies and then put back" return in ST3, Data's poignant death and sacrifice in Nemesis was completely and underwhelming-ly cut at the knees by the easy out of the clone android that now just turns back into the same beloved character trope. He's dead but not really. This was the same effect Search for Spock had for me as it gutted the heartbreaking and ballsy decision to kill Spock in Wrath of Khan.

As for the disassembled droid, it likely is B-4 who required to be reprogrammed and refitted with newer technology as it was incapable to sustain the operations needed by Data's brain upload or some such nonsense.

It might be Lore, mind wiped, and ready for a new personality.

Or the wildcard, yet another identical droid no one knew existed or built brand spanking new, just cause at the end of the day, no matter who that dismembered carcass was it will now be Data.

Just saying.

 

[Candice Greene]

I knew way before Staar Trek Nemesis that Data had to die. It was obvious as looking at Brent Spiner that they was not enough makeup left in the Paramount Lot to make him look younger anymore. Besides, it was logical after First Contact that it was going to happen.

I would say it's Lore, but I doubt it altogether. Just from what we learned from Data, creating a matrix is not exactly the easiest thing for anyone (including Androids) to do. Although Dr Soong seems to left a plethora of androids in his wake...honestly, this would make now his fourth copy of Data. And seeing how Lore came out, I would think that B4 was a knockoff seeing what was he built with an accessible data port. Then again, I doubt anyone else could make a Positronic Matrix, even a simple one than Dr Soong. Maybe a fourth one but once again we are left with the episode to figure out why disassembled in a draw.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

Well, whatever android it will be in the end, i think this part of the forum will be very alive when "Picard" show hits our tv screens

 

[Archonon]

That is very true Croatian K. Happy B-Day, btw.

Yeah for such a complex and "unique" being, there seems to be a damn Data manufacturing plant somewhere. Lol.

B-4 was allegedly a prototype for Data and Lore, so I'm sure they can come up with yet another droid, old or new, cause reasons. Heck, this one will probably be like the stupid Terminator and can "age" so that they can excuse Spiner's appearance. Point is, they want Data back and, like they did with Spock, they will come up with some mumbo jumbo explanation to make it happen. After all, Star Trek has always loved to not pay attention to its details, they are more of a listen to the moral of the story as opposed to cohesive world building. Remember when warp drive was damaging the fabric of space? Lol.

At this point, I don't think I care much about how they will bring back Data. I'm curious as to what they will end up doing with Picard, arguably my favorite Captain from the TNG-VOY era, but I'm more cautious than anything. I don't want another "The universe hangs in the balance of this character or your actions" kind of story and that's what it looks like we are getting with that girl he is protecting. I'm tired of the messiah missions, save/destroy this person because they have the power to save/destroy everyone hogwash.

I would have much more preferred a study about the rocky relationship between the Federation and the Romulan remnants following the loss of Romulus to be honest.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

Tnx, Archonon. I must say, i also wish that stuff you said abour Federation-Romulan relations to be centerpoint of the show. Romulans were always great baddies and i wished shows did them more justice, like DS9 did for Cardassians(oh, i like Cardassians). I always accepted that "Nemesis" and "Riker goes with Titan into the Neutral zone" were somewhat hopeful insinuations that Fed-Rom relations will be better, just as i accepted that destroying borw transwarp conduit in "Endgame" + Borg resistance were insinuation of hope for trilions of assimilated. Those two issues alone could be theme on multiple seasons show. If we get any of that in "Picard", it could be worth watching. But as always, i remain highly cautious, especially since this is Kurtzmann-trek.

 

[Candice Greene]

What if...Th Girl...is....Q!


Yeah, that's sarcasm.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

What if...Th Girl...is....Q!


Yeah, that's sarcasm.

Well, with the Kurtzmann's level of bad writing, even that is possible...

 

[Candice Greene]

Now, I feel stupid. Got this from Memory Alpha.

The Soong-type androids created, in chronological order:

• Two unnamed prototypes
• B-4
• Lore
• Data
• Juliana Tainer
• Lal

So there are two more Prototypes of Data, David, Walter, there are a lot of Androids to go through.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

Damn, i don't remember Juliana Tainer, it is good that i am currently rewatching entire TNG. I also don't remember two unnamed prototypes. I am false trek fan

 

[Candice Greene]

These two prototype Soong-type androids, along with B-4, failed sometime prior to 2338. Noonian Soong and his wife Juliana considered them like children and were saddened at their loss. Data was unaware of their existence until Tainer informed him. (TNG: "Inheritance")


I wish I use TrekkieGal as my name, but I didn't know what I was doing.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

These two prototype Soong-type androids, along with B-4, failed sometime prior to 2338. Noonian Soong and his wife Juliana considered them like children and were saddened at their loss. Data was unaware of their existence until Tainer informed him. (TNG: "Inheritance")

Poor old Soong, he really didn't have luck with his marriage and kids.

 

[CABAL]

Speaking of Tainer, "Inheritance" mentions that Data appears to age.

It's part of her aging programme. Not only does she age in appearance like Data, her vital signs change too.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure at least one other episode mentions that Data doesn't age, so who knows. I mean, Trek never did work out fully consistent rules for a ton of things, like the holodeck.

 

[Candice Greene]

Poor old Soong, he really didn't have luck with his marriage and kids.

Built his Dreamgirl, and she walked...dayum!

 

[Candice Greene]

Speaking of Tainer, "Inheritance" mentions that Data appears to age.



On the other hand, I'm pretty sure at least one other episode mentions that Data doesn't age, so who knows. I mean, Trek never did work out fully consistent rules for a ton of things, like the holodeck.

That's why I kind of figured Data has to die, he can't pull off a Spock, unless the chip in his head can even help you age, and be Methuselah.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

Built his Dreamgirl, and she walked...dayum!

Yeah, but she was kind a dead already, so basicaly, he got himself a sex bot that looks like his late wife!

 

[Candice Greene]

Yeah, but she was kind a dead already, so basicaly, he got himself a sex bot that looks like his late wife!

That even sounds worse. She still walked out on him.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

Candice, we may joke around as much as we want, but what if we all are going to be amazed with incredible story and memorable characters by Alex "Bad Reboot" Kurtzmann ?

 

[Candice Greene]

Candice, we may joke around as much as we want, but what if we all are going to be amazed with incredible story and memorable characters by Alex "Bad Reboot" Kurtzmann ?

Wait...he has rememberable Characters? I'm thinking that CBS pulled the old Gene Roddenberry of Season 2 plan. He gets the glory, someone else does the story. To bad Fuller let CBS have this idea though, then again maybe it will pan out. All I know, I probably won't see one episode as I REFUSE to pay for CBS All A$$Crap.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

Wait...he has rememberable Characters? I'm thinking that CBS pulled the old Gene Roddenberry of Season 2 plan. He gets the glory, someone else does the story. To bad Fuller let CBS have this idea though, then again maybe it will pan out. All I know, I probably won't see one episode as I REFUSE to pay for CBS All A$$Crap.

Nothing with Kurtzman's signature is good, not just Trek. His movies, even his comic books sucks. But still, i like character of Picard so much, i will give a chance to this stuff.

 

[Candice Greene]

Nothing with Kurtzman's signature is not good, not just Trek. His movies, even his comic books sucks. But still, i like character of Picard so much, i will give a chance to this stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I am still Cynical. Like spotting a Stock photo of Madison Square Garden in Rocky III, I know when production is a bit off. Which brings me back to the Blackboard (I'm dying to hear that Rational). I would love to give it a chance, just dreaming of possibilities is hope enough. But when the last Great Production I saw from Trek was a Fan Production...it's not much hope.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

Don't get me wrong, I am still Cynical. Like spotting a Stock photo of Madison Square Garden in Rocky III, I know when production is a bit off. Which brings me back to the Blackboard (I'm dying to hear that Rational). I would love to give it a chance, just dreaming of possibilities is hope enough. But when the last Great Production I saw from Trek was a Fan Production...it's not much hope.

Last Trek thing i enjoyed was Archer's Enterprise... that show was getting better, too bad that we never got Romulan War because of cancelation. Now matter how many people despise ENT, that "polarised hull" ship show was better than any Dickovery episode

 

[Candice Greene]

Well, I am totally inclusive TOS-TAS-TNG-DS9-VOY-ENT. I enjoyed them all, except for the Color schemes in TAS. It not so much the Technolgy, and the ships, it was the stories. They even use Allegories in ENT for God sakes (OK the TAS Stories...not so much). Then again when you start to care about the Characters, that keeps you coming back.

Discovery had to bring Pike, and Spock, and the Old Gang, and the USS Enterprise just to make Season 2...interesting. That's a GIMMICK, which I am hoping Picard is no GIMMICK. Patrick said some positive things, nobody has walked yet, so we will see.

 

[Jetfreak]

That is exactly the epicenter of this fandom's aging situation. Drawing that fancy line between new and old. "They changed it, now it sucks".

Give some nuance to that mindset, because over saturation in the material ironically leads to staleness and tunnel vision. TOS-ENT had practically the same format. If I was managing the Star Trek IP, I would definitely explore other ways of storytelling. Except hiring the 20+ producers part, that's really bullflappings**t.

From what I've observed in the fandom, megafans who spend their time immersed in technical details make for lousy television critics. It's a vastly different skill set. That's cringey because what Trekkies want is essentially a filmed Wikipedia page. Just boring, safe, stay in your lane checklisting. Ironically, that broadly defines the majority of fan-works. I keep saying that Trek needs a Dave Filoni equivalent with a clear vision and to oversee consistency and quality. I don't see that effort in the current management. Except half-arsed experimentation and last minute salvaging.

Definitely, KT and Discovery are vastly weaker products, but they do reflect the current state of the industry as whole. And that is what's most disappointing, these new Treks have so much potential that is blunted by bad management. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[Candice Greene]

One, there are plenty Dave Filonis out there, they just don't work for CBS

Two, investing into the fact that all of the other Television series will out sale, be watched multiple times, and remembered to even be PUT in a Wiki, speaks volumes into this so-called Mega-fandom?

Three I doubt if instead of a Star Trek Picard series if they did something otherwise based on this "New Age Trek" as they so call it, would have been axed 2 months before now. That's because of all the complexities of Character Building have been cast away for action, action, grunge, and some more action. Then again it takes a season until you figure out anyone these days.

 

[ISS_Enterprise_D]

One of the things that completely broke my faith in people in this fandom when Picard happened was people whining about a new bat'leth prop. It had details changed so minor that I had to look for them, but people went and complained anyway.

Trekkies don't deserve new Trek as far as I'm concerned. Christ it's like a plague, what happened to rational people?

 

[Archonon]

As Hellkite said, Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations: To each their own.

I definitely agree with Jet's statement of any franchise becoming stale if it is repeated in the exact same tone and the exact same way ad nauseam. And Trek definitely had that with me. I like TNG, despise DS9 and tolerate VOY. I love TOS and TMP, I set ENT apart cause it's basically its own universe and in that thinking, I dig it; as the canon before TOS I do not. I like the effort and concept of STD but dislike the execution of it, the characters and the shoehorning of it into the Prime timeline with forced connections to TOS. I love the Kelvin movies because they are their own thing and I love the revamped alternate TOS world and the cast. Never saw TAS.

If I disliked a franchise not trying anything new then I would have stopped the Alien franchise in Scott's 1979 original. But no, I love Cameron's Aliens from 1986, perhaps even more than the original. The rest, meh, but Alien and Aliens are on the top tier of Sci-Fi movies for me. They are so different in tone and atmosphere that they are night and day, yet neither suffers for doing it in the same universe. This is how I see the Kelvinverse; Star Trek Prime is Alien, with the more serious and dramatic themes, while Kelvinverse is Aliens, a fun adventure ride with a gung-ho attitude; and at least Kelvin doesn't override the Prime like STD and ENT did.

This brings us back to Picard. Picard isn't going to be like TNG, allegedly. It is supposed to be more of a character study about Picard, which sounds terrific to me. But instead of showing that character study within the context of the fallout of his great failure, it will instead be as he tries to protect Joan Connor, the future of Romulus' Resistance or whatever. There, they lost some points again with me. They tell me that this will be a more scaled down, private, character driven drama but the stakes are now higher than entire seasons worth of ST shows with him protecting the future potential messiah/antichrist of the Romulans like he is the reprogrammed T-800. But then, all I have is an idea from a 2 min teaser? So I will reserve final judgment until I see the reviews...cause I ain't paying for CBS Access. If the show turns out good, which I hope it will, then I will buy it on Blu.

 

[Candice Greene]

In other words, be Tolerant, or don't be heard at all. Hell if a fan has a different opinion. So I guess I am off this thread.

 

[Hellkite]

"Be Tolerant"

Candice

More like The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity

• Treat others as you would like others to treat you (positive or directive form)
• Do not treat others in ways that you would not like to be treated (negative or prohibitive form)
• What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself (empathic or responsive form)

We all have our views and perspectives and we are entitled to them.

Example: I hold the perspective that the Odyssey-class is a worthless design and despise it completely and I have my reasons ...

Were you have express you fondness for it.

Both view points are equal and are to be respected

​

As such is the cost of free speech

 

[Candice Greene]

I don't deal in absolutes, I never said anything derogatory to the fanbase of any Trek fans. All I do is give my opinion, which I stand by 100%.

Thus a statement such as "Trekkies don't deserve new Trek as far as I'm concerned. Christ it's like a plague, what happened to rational people?" I must wonder, to all those so-called Trekkies that don't deserve New Trek, my opinion is no longer required, despite I kept several ongoing conversations about possibilities to a series that I probably won't have a chance to watch.

What I am saying in short, I played by the rules, and guess what...they seem not to apply to me apparently. as I have not said a single condescending word to anyone who likes New Trek, yet apparently it OK that anyone with my views is not rational, so excuse me if I choose not to open myself for further attacks.