Star Trek: Picard

[TUB_Husker]

@ISS_Enterprise_D

Oh man. I hate fandoms. I like humans, but in groups they are ugly. Look at Game of Thrones, Star Wars, appearance Trek e.c.. To much emotions in every damn discussion about a shitty tv show and everybody believe, that the own emotions have more value as the emotions of other.
I think this is a kind of narcissism, a destructive thing that makes any discussion impossible.

I have no hope for the new Star Trek Picard, because I saw STD, I don't like STD, damn stupid that is only my opinion.
The fans who watched Star Trek in the 90 years don't understand that is past
The fans don't understand, that Star Trek is a money greedy Franchise, keywords: younger publicum,
Audience reach e.c.. Star Trek is like Mcdonalds.

Ok you will die with fifty, eat every day Mcdonalds, free will e.c.
But the Perversion of Star Trek today isn't that my brain cells die off if I watch STD, aren't stupid stories of STD, it is the greed for money and the fans "yeah, a new Star Trek, amazing, blabla" and no fan ask themselve, what I actually support.
But it is a Utopia. F..c.. O...

If I look at the civilization gave it allways People they create things, uniqueness, beautiful, lasting the time. But at some point the created things drift off into arbitrariness, mass commoditized.

And that is Star Trek, Star Wars, Game of Thrones e.c. today, mass commoditized, a waste of time.

If you like STD, it's fine for me.

 

[Jetfreak]

You nailed it there ISS, Star Trek fans can be really paradoxical, at one hand they are some of the most open minded people you'll ever meet while simultaneously being the most puritanical canon conservatives. It's really all become a very slippery slope on who can be the most pure. What exactly is "real" Star Trek? In my years in the fandom, that's always haunted me.

Trekkies are partly to blame for this, and this stuffy, nitpicky attitude problem is basically why the owners of Trek have given up and moved on. Finding new, younger and more diverse audiences. Being "Woke" as they call it. Identity and politics et al... Whether we like it or not, the "holy" old guard is definitely getting smaller.

As I've always said, Disco is very much a product of its time in the same vein as its predecessors. In terms of tone, texture and dialogue - there is a very 2010's touch to it. But let us not kid ourselves. Discovery is not made for the classic old-schoolers of Star Trek. Zeitgeist demands that this generation of loyal fans is now considered passe (1998 was 2 decades ago).

Put it this way, what is Star Trek to the average observer? Pajama unforms, weird ugly saucer ships, cheesy fx and boring political/social commentary. DSC appears to meet all these requirements; and unfortunately for the overly-invested fans, this is deemed "good enough" by its owners. Canon and the finer details be dammed, because why? Trek's paradigm and generational shift has finally hit its stride. Canon as a concept is no longer a strong priority when creating Star Trek, sure it is still there but its strength has been diminishing for years.

 

[Candice Greene]

Star Trek is a change from the mundane. It is a brighter and more hopeful future where we explore Strange new Worlds and find these new civilizations, and it always looks to the FUTURE. Sure ships change, Characters come and go, but the underlying theme is the Human adventure, unlike massive battle scenes, disjointed conflicts, and this so-called new-age storytelling that feeds off the old like a parasite. As I said, I am Cynical, because I haven't seen a likable Character since 2005. Do I want Old Star Trek Back? No, I want Star Trek back to what it is supposed to be, something to give you hope for a future.

 

[Archonon]

Everyone has their preference as to what any given show or movie should be about, especially when they are a part of a long running series of films or tv shows; nevertheless, the age in which the series/film is made will influence the direction of what will end up being represented onscreen, whether or not it fits the mold of what has come before.

I respect canon, especially when it comes to something developed by the original creator. As a wannabe author, I would despise if my work was taken by someone else and changed to make it "cooler" or "fresh" because my stories and style are antiquated or not "woke". So yeah, I understand how it works but I will not acknowledge what I dislike. As these are pieces of entertainment, I am allowed the flexibility to cherry pick what I like to be my own personal canon and not.

Case in point, for Star Wars I only accept what Lucas made as canon, everything else is Disney Wars; despite my love of Rogue One, Rebels and Clone Wars. Ep. 1-6 is the entire saga and that is it; there is full closure and no more story is needed. But to those that like the new movies, good on you, enjoy; make it part of your own canon.

I do the same thing for Star Trek. As far as I'm concerned, Star Trek's story pretty much peaked at ST6. I did not need to see TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT because they are an ad nauseam repitition of the exact same thing I saw in TOS. It's like watching the same movie over and over and over except you just change the actors and character names. When I watch Sci-Fi, I want something on a much grander depth and development of world and character; which is why I gravitate more towards Babylon 5, Farscape, Space Above and Beyond, The Expanse and my favorite book of all time, Frank Herbert's Dune. But at no time would I suggest that this makes TNG, DS9 or VOY inferior to the things that I prefer, it is simply different.

I measure STD and ST 09 in the same fashion. I have STD's first season in Blu Ray and I pretty much assign it to being its own parallel universe like the Kelvinverse and the Mirror Universe. I kept the series more for the impressive special effects than any kind of interest or fondness to any of the characters; in fact, the only character I found even remotely interesting was Lorca; everyone else was just a bunch of boring cliches and token cardboard cutouts that show no growth.

ST 09 meanwhile was a breath of fresh air in the staleness that ST had become up to that point for me, it was exciting, funny, witty, and yet I recognized the core fundamentals that made up the characters of TOS, it was still the characters I love from TOS but in a different yet similar setting, telling new stories (Or old stories in a new way). The best part of it for me was that these flicks don't mess with the original canon established in TOS (With the exception of the destruction of Romulus, perhaps). So everything that happens in NuTrek, Kelvinverse, JJverse or whatever you call it, is boxed into its own thing, separate from Shatner, Picard, Sisko and Janeway.

And that has been STD's biggest sin for me, trying to shoehorn itself into the original canon because the dumb showrunners believe that being accepted this way somehow legitimizes their new shows and "real" Trek, as opposed to them being an alternate universe, ala Kelvinverse. This is why I give Kelvinverse a pass and I don't for STD.

But at the end of the day, these are just my own personal tastes. While I am happy to share them with people that feel differently and discuss why they like something I don't and vice versa, it is not for me to say that what they like is crap simply because I don't like it; even if I actually feel that this new show actually is crap. Lol. The way I deal with it is by just not watching what I don't like.

As for Picard, it might be good or it might be crap. Who knows? I will read a full synopsis of each episode when they come out and if I like what I read, then I will purchase the blu ray and see it. I will not bother paying for CBS all access just to see this or any other show, even if it were something I definitely knew I would like. Until then, if you folks like what you see, then great, I can't wait to hear all about it here so that I know I have something to look forward to.

Until then, I'm just glad that there is all kinds of Trek out there for different people of differing tastes. I'm glad there's a quiet character study ST (Picard), a darker ST (STD season 1), an action-y adventure ST (Kelvinverse), and the original ST for all the fans to enjoy over and over (TOS-ENT). Because the worst thing that this could have continued to be is just a repetition of the same show over and over and over again, with nothing about it changing. At that point, why bother? Tell new stories in new ways and leave the old stuff alone because it was perfect without anyone messing with it. Both Star Trek and Star Wars could use that same advice. Forgive my wall text, I will just slither to my corner again.

Just my two cents.

 

[Hellkite]

Lady and Gentlemen



Or in other words

To each their own

and this is want makes the our world interesting
​

 

[dvatreknerd314]

Anyone else notice the Twilek?

 

[Candice Greene]

Anyone else notice the Twilek?

I did, yet kept quiet about it.

 

[Hellkite]

Twilek Like it one had one Lekku

"Lekku " head-tails, were long, fleshy appendages that protruded from the head of all Twi'leks and Togrutas. The aforementioned species had two (occasionally four) lekku, while the latter sported three of them.

 

[Candice Greene]

A recent inquiry by a friend Sean P. Tourangeau queried with the appearance of Troi, as well Riker in Picard would there be a good chance of seeing the USS Titan, and if so would it be the one he designed for Pocketbooks. I did a little research and found that CBS does own Pocketbooks as of 2015, but the real question is the ship in question, although even appearing in STO, is not canon. Part of me says maybe they will bring his vision to life, but my doubts seem to overshadow even those thoughts. Does anyone want to chime in on the possibility?

 

[dvatreknerd314]

I fear what they'd do to this ship. Look at how DSC implemented the idea of Control. Control was terrifying in the novel. In DSC....not so much.

 

[Candice Greene]

It's sad though, I mean wouldn't that mean trashing the Lunar class from STO? Besides you figure as the creator they would somehow contact him if they were. I know, read the fine print on the contest, blah, blah, blah...but after the Tardigrade incident, I doubt they want a repeat.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

I will give "Picard" show a chance despite Alex Kurtzmann and STD fail. As Croatian, i am not looking STD through "identity politics agenda" or whatever. For me, it is simply a bad story that badly imitates originals. I mean, Alex Kurtzman is protege of JJ Abrams- their entire storytelling technique is based on giving bad and unnecessary homagges to the originals(Star Trek or Star Wars) and they fail miserably in character development and storytelling. I mean, just look at all the franchises that Alex Kurtzmann ruined and you will know that he is not a good choice for any Star Trek series or movie. Still, i hear that Kurtzmann got "fired" from Picard development so it might still be good. I just don't want guys like Kurtzmann butchering holy SF characters like Picard. For STD itself, i think old Trek fans would be less strict if it was it's own universe but yet, it is set in prime timeline and Kurtzmann had the audacity to admit that adhering to the cannon "is difficult". Well, f..k you, Kurtzmann. I still have traumas from those ugly Klingon prosthetics that makes Klingon voices so painful. It's almost more painful than Michelle Yeoh's botox english. But, still, the most painful thing for me in entire STD was "The Vulcan Hello" dick move by Michael Burnham- i am anthropologist and Burnham(the xenoanthroplogist) was behaving like a spoiled brat, not a scientist, that was painful to watch, not just because of my profession, but because of wtf- since when Star Trek had immature brats for main characters? So, if Alex Kurtzmann is separated from "Picard" show, i am willing to give it a chance, just remove Kurtzmann from Trek or any other beloved franchise...

 

[Avon]

^ hello, i'm an 'old Trek fan' and I loved Discovery.
As far as I remember, Kurtzmann had an overseeing role for series 1 and was less 'hands on'. He took full control series 2 and immediately improved the klingon designs and gave us more development on the bridge crew. I think he has improved it, but it's still early days.

 

[Archonon]

At this point, has the USS Titan been officially canonized as a Luna Class to even begin with? I know that the ship has been depicted as having the design Candice posted in several novels, but has someone from the series or paramount come and say that this design is canon? Right now what I suppose is that the current Luna design is at best semi-canon like the Federation Class and Ulysses Class, who were part of tech manuals and games but never showed up in the series/movies.

I have seen the USS Titan depicted as any number of ships from a Galaxy to a Sovereign Class. If I recall correctly, wasn't the Luna design the product of some design contest in which the winner had the design featured on the cover of the novel?

That said, I like the Luna design a lot. I think the navigational deflector is a little too exaggeratedly big, but the general aesthetic is solid and meshes well with current Starfleet designs. So if they do use the Luna, I would not be disappointed in the slightest.

Also, given that this is 20 years later, it is very possible that Riker and Troi aren't even in Starfleet anymore. They may just be on Earth and feature visiting Picard or vice versa. Or, if they are still in Starfleet, Riker could be an Admiral in HQ and Troi the head of Starfleet Medical, having succeeded Beverly Crusher. I doubt that they would still be on the USS Titan at this point. Heck, they could even be on the USS Enterprise, that having been Riker's dream command his whole career.

 

[dvatreknerd314]

At this point, has the USS Titan been officially canonized as a Luna Class to even begin with? I know that the ship has been depicted as having the design Candice posted in several novels, but has someone from the series or paramount come and say that this design is canon? Right now what I suppose is that the current Luna design is at best semi-canon like the Federation Class and Ulysses Class, who were part of tech manuals and games but never showed up in the series/movies.

It has not. None of the games are canon, and the technical manuals are iffy at best.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

^ hello, i'm an 'old Trek fan' and I loved Discovery.
As far as I remember, Kurtzmann had an overseeing role for series 1 and was less 'hands on'. He took full control series 2 and immediately improved the klingon designs and gave us more development on the bridge crew. I think he has improved it, but it's still early days.

I really gave it a chance - i really wanted to love ti, but so much violent canon breaking and so much shallownes was too much for me. I will say again, if it was its own universe and total reboot, i would enjoy it more, but you STD team cannot crap all over the canon and then expect everyone to enjoy show that is supossedly continuation of that same canon.

 

[Candice Greene]

I have seen the USS Titan depicted as any number of ships from a Galaxy to a Sovereign Class. If I recall correctly, wasn't the Luna design the product of some design contest in which the winner had the design featured on the cover of the novel?

Sean P. Tourangeau is the contest winner, that without denial. It was just a query he has, is there a chance we will get to see USS Titan, and would it be his design which while not Canon, is still the property of CBS who has ownership of Pocketbooks, and even commissioned to release to now a number of other entities such as Eaglemoss featuring his design as the USS Titan.

Personally, I say they won't because one thing is asserting in this age of Trek....CHANGE.

 

[Archonon]

Hmm. Well I certainly wouldn't mind that the Luna be officially canonized as the USS Titan, or should Riker and Troi no longer be on the Titan, that we can at least see other Luna class ships in the background...or foreground for that matter. I like the design.

Fans often make far superior work than those that own the license properties; see all those Star Wars fan films such as Maul Dark Apprentice or Vader Shards of the Past, and with Star Trek, what better example than Axanar?

What I'm getting at is I think probably Tourangeau's design will likely be much more faithful to the canon timeline than whatever ungodly monstrosity the showrunners of Picard will design, look at the sheer contrast between the Federation ships on STD versus theeir allegedly contemporary designs of TOS, they fit together about as well as a square peg in a round hole. Even the STDprise doesn't look like it fits with the other ships in that same show.

 

[TUB_Husker]

I have no hope for the Design's, if I look at this:
https://scifanatic-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/dsc0s31vid-s31ship-art.jpg
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/epics/DSC-S2/DSC-S2E14-11.jpg

But I am curious. How they rape the Galaxy Class or Sovereign Class, like the Constitution Class.

 

[Jetfreak]

Since we're all aping hard on the change is bad and kurtzman hack bad shtick. I'd like to look at the infamous STO ships as what to expect on what may be the upcoming design direction of STP.

"Galaxy"

"Sovereign"

No class or elegance on these birds, that's for sure. With all the hand wringing on the finer details. Is it possible that Star Trek design is like classical music? Is there is a certain order and precision on how things are created? Perhaps some modesty (less is more) is in order? By comparison, all the new stuff seems like dub-step or whatever is new.

On the other hand, we could get fairly decent newbuild types like the Emmett Till, again by John Eaves.

 

[Hellkite]

Sto hell no

John Eaves hell yes

 

[dvatreknerd314]

My problem with the Emmett Till is it looks for the most part like a Sovereign variant. The under-side view was nice, but I would have liked more distinctiveness in the design of the saucer and the nacelles. It's possible to do without it being a boxy mess.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

STO designs are genericly atroucious,, especially Federation, but still, nothing is so disgusting as klingon designs from STD. Still, we have yet to see what ship "Picard" will introduce or re-introduce(since it will focus on Romulans, i would like to see old D'Deridex warbird in all its glory).

 

[Candice Greene]

I like the Odyssey-class, and after that STO has nothing interesting to brag about. As far as Federation ships in Picard, there seems to be One assured thing. We probably won't see ANY Federation ships at least for god knows how many episodes until we will. As for the Romulan ships which I pretty sure what we have seen in the Trailer, I don't know what to tell you as they are unlike anything I've seen, and unless there's information, it may as well be a flotilla of used scout ships.

 

[Archonon]

Jeez Jet, those designs are just...wow. I have generally not hated too much the STO designs but daaaaayum; these definitely go in the burn it with fire pile.

If this is the direction they go with new ships or worse, "updating" classic established designs, then the fleet will just be another bulky over-designed mess.

Husker, are those the Romulan ships? My God, if that's what those are then ST Picard Romulans are equal to STD Klingons in design.

 

[Croatian Klingon]

I agree with Archonon about Romulan designs in "Picard" show being possibly STD klingon level of fail, but it still can be just some new class of ship and if they return some legendary ships like D'Deridex or Valdore, i will be more tolerable to any new design, no matter how ugly... just let us have some classics like Galaxy-X, Sovereign, warbirds etc...

 

[Zelph]

I'm excited for Picard, especially given Sir PatStew's heavy involvement in the Writer's Room.

I didn't like a lot of Season 1 of DSC on my first watch through, but I've enjoyed it more as I've rewatched it. Not to say I don't have issues with it still. Season 2 was a much needed improvement, and I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with Season 3.

 

[Candice Greene]

Another recently discussed possibly is Data's appearance. I can sum up the last appearance in the trailer as maybe a Hologram, but what has me scratching my head is this. The scene where we see a Soong type Android disassembled. Every reasonable explanation has been shot down effectively unless you ignore everything we know.

1. It's Data, or what's left of him. Which makes no sense when Thalaron Radiation and the total destruction left at the end of him detonating it can fall under pretty much atomizing any part of his existence. If he survived, we need to make Starships that tough.
2. It's B4, or another Soong type android. This sounds likely except if it is B4, why was he taken apart. If it follows the Kurtzman storyline, B4 became Data, who was Captain of the USS Enterprise. What would lead Starfleet to mothball a Starfleet Captain? As far as other Soong type androids...again why would you keep a copy of a person in storage (As Data was his Friend, not a trophy to be sat in the smoking-room stuffed).
3. It's Lore....really?

As we know there is only one Android left (who thinks herself as Data's mother), and that only if she wasn't built with an expiration algorithm, which she probably was, which leads me to think that it can only be B4. Am I wrong to think this or was this a crazy flashback or Holoprogram?

 

[Croatian Klingon]

Another recently discussed possibly is Data's appearance. I can sum up the last appearance in the trailer as maybe a Hologram, but what has me scratching my head is this. The scene where we see a Soong type Android disassembled. Every reasonable explanation has been shot down effectively unless you ignore everything we know.

1. It's Data, or what's left of him. Which makes no sense when Thalaron Radiation and the total destruction left at the end of him detonating it can fall under pretty much atomizing any part of his existence. If he survived, we need to make Starships that tough.
2. It's B4, or another Soong type android. This sounds likely except if it is B4, why was he taken apart. If it follows the Kurtzman storyline, B4 became Data, who was Captain of the USS Enterprise. What would lead Starfleet to mothball a Starfleet Captain? As far as other Soong type androids...again why would you keep a copy of a person in storage (As Data was his Friend, not a trophy to be sat in the smoking-room stuffed).
3. It's Lore....really?

As we know there is only one Android left (who thinks herself as Data's mother), and that only if she wasn't built with an expiration algorithm, which she probably was, which leads me to think that it can only be B4. Am I wrong to think this or was this a crazy flashback or Holoprogram?

I think it will be B4 since they already went on "Romulus is truly destroyed in prime timeline" and Kurtzmann's comic resurected Data through B4

 

[Candice Greene]

Kind of Macabre to have your friend (or what remains of him) disassembled in a Draw. But then again, who knows where they were, they may have stumbled in on his stored body.