• Hello and welcome to MSFC. We are a small and close knitted community who specialises in modding the game Star Trek Armada 2 and the Fleet Operations modification, however we have an open field for discussing a number of topics including movies, real life events and everything in-between.

    Being such a close community, we do have some restrictions, including all users required to be registered before being able to post as well as all members requiring to have participated in the community for sometime before being able to download our modding files to name the main ones. This is done for both the protection of our members and to encourage new members to get involved with the community. We also require all new registrations to first be authorised by an Administrator and to also have an active and confirmed email account.

    We have a policy of fairness and a non harassment environment, with the staff quick to act on the rare occasion of when this policy is breached. Feel free to register and join our community.

This is Disturbing...

T

thunderfoot

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Former MSFC Member
At the least, one could flag the information he's posted. To make it easier to spot him the next time he tries something like this. And unfortunately, with someone like this there will always bea next time.
 

Majestic

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The only way I would recommend tracking him down is if any of you guys whos stuff he took intend to sue him as you could do that.

Or to pass it on to the authorities/star trek licence owners. To be honest the only way you may be able to get it would be to buy the mods he's selling.

However I agree with TSK, lets see if ebay actually gets off their butts and does something. Activision has already been notified by the A2Files staff so it's about as much as we can do at the moment. If nothing happens from there we can see about taking it further with contacting however owns the right to Star Trek nowadays.

The sad truth of it is, this kind of thing happens a lot, people claiming others work or trying to make profit from it. While this world is made of very high standing people such as everyone here, there are those whom are polar opposites like this ebay guy. I really believe the best way to stop these types of things happening is to make downloads only available to registered members and to check the members ip addresses and emails against spammer lists. I have stopped quite a few in the last couple of days alone using this method, one even tried registered twice after the first account was banned.

However even doing this isn't fool proof and people can still get in, whom would rip someone off.
 

Avon

The older I get, the more I forget
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ha ha. Well, i never meant physically track him down. Although, now i think about it, it is tempting.

No, what i meant was you guys are all admin and the like in this community, with accesss to peoples accounts and details on-site and in the forums. Now having his name, address and e-mail address, there must be a way of seeing if he is indeed a member of one of the sites. Then name, shame, and perma-ban the guy.
 

Majestic

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Problem with banning is the fact that no forum software I have encountered allows a person to ban a MAC address (their hardware physical address), banning a email address one can just get a new one, banning a IP address, one can get around that too if they some a little bit of IT knowledge. A MAC address locks their computer from getting online, meaning for as long as they have it, they can't use that PC to access the site they are banned from.

I've requested a few times on vBulletin itself for a MAC address ban option, but none of the coders have picked it up, or the development team themselves unless that has changed in recent versions. I think the only way I could get one, is to become a programmer myself or pay a coder to do it for us. But at the moment we have the renewal coming up very soon (a week or two), and we have to see about getting the funds to upgrade the vBulletin software that is out of date by nearly a year or so.
 
S

StarBlade

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Former MSFC Member
you guys are all admin and the like in this community, with accesss to peoples accounts and details on-site and in the forums. Now having his name, address and e-mail address, there must be a way of seeing if he is indeed a member of one of the sites. Then name, shame, and perma-ban the guy.

I can check in FileFront's software, but as Majestic points out, it won't be a permanent fix even if it's a permanent ban. Not to mention that even the banned members can download mods. And once we've permanently banned him from FileFront, what's going to stop him from selling as many mods as he wants? He could offer the entirety of A2Files for sale without setting up a FileFront account. And that leaves us without recourse for a second offense, unless the FF brass or Activision's EULA monitors decide to contact their respective legal departments about it.

I would love nothing more than to wield some power against this sort of offense. The people who made the mods he's selling are my friends in some cases, and are my responsibility to look out for in all cases. Let's just hope enough of us have complained to eBay, or that if that doesn't happen, there simply won't be enough profit in this for the guy to continue.

After all, he's not selling the game, just the mods. If you want the game disc itself, you'll have to be prepared to shell out HUGE money to get it if you don't already have it. And for most people, a $1 add-on to a $200 game.... in this economy? No thanks.

:D
 

Paul

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Trying to sell free stuff ?, lmao what an idiot !. Not only has he made a enemy outta everyone but if someone buys it and checks what paypal account it went to...they get full name, address and everything else they need :lol:. I got the details of some lassie who tried to screw me on Ebay and my cash back tho i cant remember it.
You can however find his/her real address using a simple IP address. Google has a number of tracker sites that trace IP's. Used it years ago but im certain they are still around :yum:

This idiots just beggin for trouble and the fool's who pay for it are thick. He has hit A2files or Armada Fleet Command (Last i saw they still had downloads)...and proberly many other places. Its stupid but anyone can try to pass it off as their own without doing a single thing, all you need is a unsuspecting client base.

Hope someone gets some info on the him/her, i can see hell awaiting him if it became public :angel:
 
T

thunderfoot

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Sadly, in the 21st Century, there are still people whom either cannot or will not think for themselves. I am pretty sure at least one person bought this thinking it was the game. Especially when they saw the price for this. And that is as far as they thought because they were thinking they were getting s steal. Unlike "all those poor suckers who shelled out $200 for a fair condition disc without any of the packaging." It is fact people are easy to scam. Con artists such as this guy have made a living off of stupidity since the beginnings of recorded history. Because no matter how hard you try, you cannot fix stupid.
 

Avon

The older I get, the more I forget
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Well, i was about to get back into modding. With a full race, and a few other bits left to finish and release.
I definately wont be bothering any more. In fact i shall just bin the lot, rather than let some scumbag make money from my hard work. Makes me **** angry :(
 
S

StarBlade

Deleted Due to Inactivity
Former MSFC Member
I am pretty sure at least one person bought this thinking it was the game. Especially when they saw the price for this. And that is as far as they thought because they were thinking they were getting s steal. Unlike "all those poor suckers who shelled out $200 for a fair condition disc without any of the packaging."

I don't know, he did clearly label that "THIS IS NOT THE GAME". Which implies to me that he has had that experience before, been called a scammer, and updated the listing.

However, I can also envision it being a sort of honeypot scheme. "Yeah, I know I only sold you the mods, but I can get you the whole game --if you don't mind a bootleg version of the actual disc-- for a price." That's definitely something eBay frowns upon, and would be a far greater transgression than sold mods. I'm not saying this guy's doing that, but one could, if one were that sort of scum.

And Avon, the WORST thing to come out of this whole fiasco would be someone out there not getting back into modding A2 because you toss out all the good stuff you just described. We need new content-- we crave it, desperately. You've never released a poor mod, and your level of detail is something I love to see in A2 modding. Same goes for the lot of you-- don't quit modding because of one person. At least find some way to make it my fault before you quit. Then I can apologize and we can all stay one big happy community. ;)

:D
 

Majestic

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Well, i was about to get back into modding. With a full race, and a few other bits left to finish and release.
I definately wont be bothering any more. In fact i shall just bin the lot, rather than let some scumbag make money from my hard work. Makes me **** angry :(

Not to plug the site, but if it comes to the worse at least release it here, MSFC forces members to be registered to download and we will be stepping up the amount of posts one requires before they can download. (This was decided months in advance of this incident, it's just all 3 admins have had stuff that has taken us away from the site lately and all 3 of us haven't been online at the same time to fully discuss it.)

While our method isn't 100%, really what is in this world?

As TSK has said, you've done amazing work, your Dominion ships are fantastic and the best around and I love them to death. I was also really looking forward to your Hirogen stuff, as you well know what a fan of the Delta Quadrant and Voyager I am.
 
T

thunderfoot

Deleted Due to Inactivity
Former MSFC Member
Well, i was about to get back into modding. With a full race, and a few other bits left to finish and release.
I definitely wont be bothering any more. In fact I shall just bin the lot, rather than let some scumbag make money from my hard work. Makes me **** angry :(
I really wish you would not "bin the lot". Your stuff is too amazing to do something like this with. Please do not let one person ruin your enjoyment of modding this or any other game. Far too easy to do so. Then where would the rest of us be without something verah kewel from you to look forward to?

I still remember the amazement and delight I experienced when I opened up your Caretaker Mod or watched your new Romulan ships square off with that Tactical Cube whilst defending the Rihannsu from assimilation. Be shame if no one ever gets to experience such as this ever again. Your stuff and I can understand your feelings far too well. It is my hope you reconsider.
 

Majestic

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In regards to this incident, with the shameless rip off of peoples mods, we have created a community input thread about what a reasonable post limit one should have before being able to download mods here at MSFC should be:

Community Input About Downloads - MSFC

We encourage everyone, mod creators and the general community a like to post their opinions and suggestions.
 

Starfox1701

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Ebay sent me a survey about how satified I was of how they have handled this situation. I let them hold the bag on it and was a bit brutal on the comments. I would seggest the when you all get you surveys you do the same if the page is still up.
 
T

thunderfoot

Deleted Due to Inactivity
Former MSFC Member
Well, I was about to get back into modding. With a full race, and a few other bits left to finish and release. I definitely won't be bothering any more. In fact I shall just bin the lot, rather than let some scumbag make money from my hard work. Makes me **** angry :(

One of the things MSFC was founded for was because some people got a raw deal and had their mods stolen. Worse, Staff and Admin at other sites seemed not to care and in effect shrugged their shoulders about it. People stop making new things for a game when their old things get stolen and they are treated disrespectfully. SJ placed something of mine into KA2 without asking me first and then tried to cover it up by lying to nearly everyone in the Community. I believe this is how I met you, Starfox. As I recall, you were really upset at the time he would do such a thing. I normally care little about credit being given to me for things I've done. But in this case he was so snotty to everyone about everything, I decided, "Enough! This time I am going to play the permissions game the way everyone else does." SJ probably still hates the thought of me. Good.

The first time I met Majestic was when he was upset about people on the other A2 site giving the SOD Importer/Exporter out willy nilly. He was concerned people would not get credit for things they had done. I had the importer and I had just begun looking at how other people made their models to see what I needed to learn how to do. I was upset someone I did not know would casually lump me in with the liars and thieves. The only thing which kept me from clicking into Loose Cannon Mode was he had a legitimate point. People were stealing mods or parts of them and the originators were not being credited for their work.

How is putting some sort of system in place to delay/prevent people from doing what Dr. Dirtbag did on eBay a bad thing? Further, how will this discourage people from joining or cause established members to leave? How does something simple like has been suggested compare to what airport security does? We're not speaking of keeping the crazies off the jetliners here, just trying to keep people from performing a repeat of what has already been done far too many times. How many people have left, never to return because of people like the guy on eBay? I can put enough 'What ifs?' on this to make it come out any way anyone wants it to.

Yeah, yeah. I know if someone wants something badly enough they'll find a way to get it. No matter what safeguards are in place and for how long. But why make it easy for them? Seems to me the people who come here for the right reasons will be willing to go along with the protocols. This is not about making it too difficult for regular folks to get to the Downloads Section. It is about protecting the rights of artists, such as yourself Starfox. I would be very dismayed to find your A2 Super Star Destroyer available anywhere else unknown to you and without you being credited for the work. You spent a great deal of time on that mod and you deserve the accolades and praise others have given you for it. Anything else would be very disrespectful towards you as a person.

And isn't this what we are really talking about here? Respect towards one another? I have no problem with something be placed as a firebreak between the new people and the Downloads. The reasons for this are it will adapt and evolve as needs be because the people whom are members here will make sure of this. It encourages new people to get to know one another a little better and reinforces a sense of belonging to a Community rather than just another mod site. Finally who says the new people will stay on the other side of the firebreak forever?
 

Terra_Inc

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Not to plug the site, but if it comes to the worse at least release it here, MSFC forces members to be registered to download and we will be stepping up the amount of posts one requires before they can download. (This was decided months in advance of this incident, it's just all 3 admins have had stuff that has taken us away from the site lately and all 3 of us haven't been online at the same time to fully discuss it.)

While our method isn't 100%, really what is in this world?

I second that. MSFC is one of the places where a modder's rights are fully respected. If someone stole a mod here, the whole community would instantly switch to "Righteous Fury Mode" and teach that person the meaning of "artist's rights". I am not joking.

The first time I met Majestic was when he was upset about people on the other A2 site giving the SOD Importer/Exporter out willy nilly. He was concerned people would not get credit for things they had done. I had the importer and I had just begun looking at how other people made their models to see what I needed to learn how to do. I was upset someone I did not know would casually lump me in with the liars and thieves. The only thing which kept me from clicking into Loose Cannon Mode was he had a legitimate point. People were stealing mods or parts of them and the originators were not being credited for their work.
Good god, the Importer... Those were discussions. It was before I joined the community, and people are still upset about it. And rightly so.
 

Starfox1701

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Fire breaks aren't a bad thing I just think we need to be carfull not to make it so far a jump that most people won't bother for a 10 year old game. The best security is numbers. Get as many people from as meany mod communities as you can round up and send them to his page and report him. After all what hurts 1 community hurts us all in every community.
 

Dan1025

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Well, I was about to get back into modding. With a full race, and a few other bits left to finish and release. I definitely won't be bothering any more. In fact I shall just bin the lot, rather than let some scumbag make money from my hard work. Makes me **** angry

I can only echo the sentiments of the people posting here Avon, don't let this guy ruin modding for you. By all means be angry (I certainly was and the guy wasn't even selling any of my work) but please don't let him make you take your brilliant work away from the community.

As for the minimum posts idea, I think it's a good idea to prevent people like this guy on eBay steal from members of the community, but I also agree with Starfox when he says we need to be careful not to go so far as to discourage people from downloading when they have no intention of stealing/selling any of it. Balance is important with this issue.
 

Majestic

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I think I've made my responce on many of the last posts here: MSFC - View Single Post - Community Input About Downloads

Now that we have a thread for ideas of such, lets keep this topic/thread to the fact about this ebay theft and any responses or actions by ebay/Activision over it. Lets hope at the very least, this guy's items are taken down and he gets a pretty negative reputation. However in my experience, ebay does squat about issues with sellers selling something they shouldn't or don't include what is advertised.
 
T

thunderfoot

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My bad. I was not watching which thread I was posting to closely enough. Won't happen again.
 

Majestic

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It's all good, happens from time to time. :)
 

Starfox1701

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I think ebay pulled the listing. I went in the front door and tried to get the page to come up and the seach won't bring it up.
 

Adm_Z

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I think thats because it is a private listing.
 
S

StarBlade

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It's still there. I've been keeping an eye on it to see when it'll be pulled. Answer looks more like "when the seller pulls it himself" all the time.

:D
 

Majestic

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I don't have much faith in eBay doing the right thing. In one instance we bought the sega Sonic games (Sonic 1, 2, 3 and another one) we paid a bit for them as sega megadrive games a worth a bit these days. Well anyway we got the package and it was missing sonic 3 and had some master system game in it. We asked the guy about it and he said that he lost it and added another game instead. However he didn't both to ask us if that was okay, offer a discounted price or anything. Despite to say we don't have a master system so it was useless to us. We complained to eBay and they did squat. Since that day I have no faith in eBay and all we could do was to give the guy some negative feedback saying what he did to try and avoid him doing it to others.

I feel TSK is right here, the only way it's going to go down is if the seller pulls it himself. It's a shame one can't comment on items, as we could get a heap of us to comment and complain about it so others could see it. I suppose the only other way to do something is perhaps countless people contacting him through eBay and saying he is selling their mods and that if he doesn't pull it immediately he'll find himself in court and that Activision and the Star Trek licence owners are aware of it and are looking into taking action themselves as well. It might scare him enough to drop it, especially considering he wouldn't be getting much for the item in the first place anyway.
 

Paul

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Doesnt the Question bit add a box under the description tho ?. Ive seen it on afew Ebay items that ppl have asked questions and they appear below the description. Might be worth while if someone asks if its the same stuff you can get for free on any A2 mod site :cool:

Im not sure if its a auto Ebay program (I think it is, but ive never tried to sell anythin on Ebay) or the seller. It might be worthwhile looking into

If we cant find it on Search then thats good news, means hardly anyone will find it :clap:
 
S

StarBlade

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Doesnt the Question bit add a box under the description tho ?. Ive seen it on afew Ebay items that ppl have asked questions and they appear below the description.

The questions get cut off after a few characters (I think it's around 300), and only get posted if the seller replies. Even then, you have to be an eBay member to post the comments. Which, ironically enough, can result in HIM complaining to eBay about YOU harassing him. And sadly, they're more likely to go after you than the other guy --investigating claims of copyright theft is work while investigating harassment means off-the-cuff half-cocked "don't do that again".

Not to mention that I've bought items without looking at the listing all the way through before --I've known people who did not notice they're buying the BOX for something rather than the item itself-- and the "Questions" are found BELOW the end of the listing information! Anyone who reads that far deserves a few bucks just for the time it takes to read it all!

EDIT to add: I can confirm the fact that the item is apparently no longer available in a search of the site. I looked for words like "Armada mods" and "Armada extras" and just about every search term in the listing-- even the title exactly as it appears on the listing. No luck on any eBay site (I tried eBay, eBay Canada, & eBay UK). So maybe they're not taking down the listing itself, but they ARE killing anyone's hope of finding it. That's good enough to chalk this up as "one for the good guys".

We did it, folks. :excited:

:D
 

Majestic

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Yay, one for the good guys huh? :thumbsup:

Congratulations to everyone, especially those whom complained to eBay, thank you all for your part in getting this pulled and helping to further protecting our mod makers and their hard work.
 

Dan1025

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EDIT to add: I can confirm the fact that the item is apparently no longer available in a search of the site. I looked for words like "Armada mods" and "Armada extras" and just about every search term in the listing-- even the title exactly as it appears on the listing. No luck on any eBay site (I tried eBay, eBay Canada, & eBay UK). So maybe they're not taking down the listing itself, but they ARE killing anyone's hope of finding it. That's good enough to chalk this up as "one for the good guys".

We did it, folks. :excited:

:D

Glad to hear it! Good to know they're at least doing something :thumbsup:

Yay, one for the good guys huh? :thumbsup:

Congratulations to everyone, especially those whom complained to eBay, thank you all for your part in getting this pulled and helping to further protecting our mod makers and their hard work.

One for the good guys indeed, and you're welcome. This community is founded and kept together by the good character of it's members, and we should uphold that whenever we can :)
 

Avon

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Just tried searching e-bay uk for star trek armada, and guess what I can see:cry:
 
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