Some Thoughts on Making BSG a Playable Race in A2 V1.1

[thunderfoot]

A quick update. Majestic graciously agreed to redo the Raptor and Assault Raptor. I asked because the ones I have currently have some mesh errors and the missile boxes on the Assault Raptor were not as good as they could have been. He went back to Coxxon's original models and then poly reduced them. I've just recieved them and they are superb! Here, let me show you.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I adjusted the SODs and gave the textures the Akira Treatment and lightmaps. They turned out even better than I hoped. Unfortunately, They now make the Vipers I intended to release in the mod look terrible. No worries. I am going to use Milkshape to go back and do the same thing with Coxxon's Vipers. I'll not be able to poly reduce them. My A2 modding reach does not extend that far. Yet. I will send them off to Adm_z so he can use them as well in his mod. As to play testers, Terra_Inc informed me yesterday via PM he will help. I will send the 128MB file(compressed size) off to him as soon as I add in and check the new models. I will probably not make the deadline I imposed on myself, but I am not going to be too far off from it.

 

[thunderfoot]

No matter what I have tried, I cannot get the thing to work. Obviously, I am missing something very minor here. In frustration, today I pulled the plug on the botched install. Now I am going to do it the hard way. I shall add one ship at a time. When this one works as I intend, I shall add the next, and so on. Not my first choice for modding this into the game I can assure you. But this way, everything will work when I release it. I also thought I'd do a little explaining here to prevent people from D/Ling something they may not like. There is no AI, AIPs or build lists. Attempting to get the AI to play as the Colonials will cause the game to CTD. I am pretty sure once this is released, someone somewhere will come up with something to address this. The ships are balanced and scaled to each other. They actually are pretty potent versus the stock ships. I am also trying to recreate the feel of BSG.

The warships are very expensive and take a great deal of time to build. The civvies will have to be built to build some of them. I have also made them very expensive to build as well as making them require a large amount of time to be completed. So if you are expecting to build a fleet of sixteen Mercury class battlestars and go hunting the Borg, it may take until the end of the game to do so. You'll probably run out of officers and crew at about twelve and you'd have to delete a few civilian ships as well. Which means you'd not be able to build Solarias The two ships which allow the accumulation of crew are not buildable. So if they get destroyed, you are simply going to run out of time and you'll eventually wind up with one ship which has just barely enough crew to move.

There are no research pods or stations. So no Special Weapons. Except for the Jump Drive and the Blackbird. Special Weapons represent the allocation of a large amount of resources to research to achieve a desired weapon or effect. People whom are concerned with merely surviving to eat dinner probably do not have the resources or time to devote to such things. Any research capabilities the Rag Tag Fleet has are vestigial at best.

The civvie ships are merely targets for anything else in the game. Everything else, including scouts, will swarm in and attack them mercilessly. They are set up so enemy vessels will ignore battlestars to attack freighters. They are also set up so players will have to build and protect them to be able to build any warships at all. I did this to give players a reason to build the civvies and because I was trying to recreate the feel of the series as closely as possible.

I had some help with these ideas. I used to have an old PC game called Escort Commander. In this game you commanded an escort group in the North Atlantic during WWII. Your job was to get the convoys through, not to kill the enemy subs. You got fewer victory points for sinking subs than you did for successfully escorting the convoy across the map. It was entirely possible to win the game without sinking a single enemy vessel. When you were located by a wolf pack, evasive tactics were rewarded. The more evasive, the higher the reward. When I first started doing this, I though of all the enjoyment I used to have playing that old game and how much fun it would be to try and place a little of that into A2. Most of us have the 'valour' part down cold now that this A2 has been around for so long. I though it might be entertaining to try out the 'discretion' part for a change.

 

[Adm_Z]

Wow, stinks that you are having problems, but it sounds like a novel concept. Mine isn't half that complicated its all just based on time and battle. no resources and only one center station, on-which everything else is built.

Yours sounds very interesting, seeing how your research is basically defenseless ships, and you have to keep them alive inorder to build ships.

very interesting...

 

[thunderfoot]

Wow, stinks that you are having problems...

Not really a problem at all, remember the coder's adage, "This is not a bug! it is an...'Unintended Feature!' " lol. Went through the same thing with the Physics Project. This is actually easier to do. Forty five ships and six weapons which are all variations on a theme rather than completely different from each other.

...Yours sounds very interesting, seeing how your research is basically defenseless ships, and you have to keep them alive inorder to build ships.

very interesting...

Well now, thank you for the compliment. I see no reason at all to not attempt to recreate the feel of BSG aas closely as I currently can. Besides, imagine when the Cylons do arrive as a mod. Should be fairly easy to adapt this to be able to recreate things like the attack on the Resurrection Ship or the death of Pegasus. Might even be possible to do some of the episodes from the RPGs which are the inspiration for all of Maj's hero battlestars. Be kinda interesting to do some maps so these could be played. Should be simple to add in some Base Ships and Raiders as map units and give the player a battlestar. I've already done exactly this in my custom install. The maps don't have to be very large or detailed. Whilst the AI won't build Colonials or Cylons at present, it can certainly use them if they are already on the map. This takes a little of the base building stuff out of the game but adds a whole new level of tactical. Throw in Freyr's Extra Spicy AIP's which are ruthless and Ta Da! you have an A2 version of BC's Quick Battle. These mini mission scenarios would have the virtue of playing quickly as well.

One of the things, I've always liked most about modding A2 is taking an idea or concept and giving it a 'Thunderfoot Twist' which makes everyone else say, "Whoa! Never saw that coming!" Like every other A2 modder on the planet I too am a bit of an attention monger, lol. Like every other A2 modder on the planet, I also have an ego which occasionally must be fed by applause. I do this stuff mostly to see if I can, but the simple act of adding to someone else's enjoyment of the game is gratifying as well. Viewing everyone's reaction to the things I've put out has been highly gratifying lately, lol. As well as this, imagine the reaction in the A2 Community when they discover MSFC has the first(and probably only, at least for awhile) A2 BSG mod available anywhere. Sometimes being first is fun. To prove this, does anyone remember the name of the second woman to fly solo across the Atlantic ocean?

 

[Majestic]

I promised Adm_Z that I would later down the road try my hand at some Cylon designs. If and when I do them you too are welcome to them to use.

Right now I just want to get a few other projects out of the way, mainly the Cardassians for COE before I try my hand at any Cylon ships. Plus I am currently doing some more work on my Fan Fiction writing.

Anyway did you get my PM's Thunderfoot? I am still wondering about that as I did ask you a couple of things and have yet to receive a response.

 

[thunderfoot]

I intend to work hard on this during this weekend and the next one to and get it into shape for release. Terra_Inc and kjc733, I should have something for you to function check very soon after. Adm_Z, your Vipers are at the top of the to do list. I will send you ODFs and weapon textures as well for you to do with as you wish. I think part of the problem last time was the voiceovers. I may have made some errors in the Input.map file. After I get a ship and a fighter in game and working, I intend to get the voiceovers working as well. They will be included as an optional install because I did all of them. After about a week, I turned them off. Seems I can get on my own nerves, as well as everyone else's, after all. Sometimes too much of me is just plain annoying. I have decided to go back to Coxxon's wonderful original textures. These will receive the Akira Treatment and be resized to 512 x 512 pixels. This size seems to balance detail and lag the best for me. Coxxon's Galactica and Pegasus textures are 2048 x 2048 He then added alphas on top of this They are beautiful in BC. Unfortunately, resizing them any smaller than 1024 x 1024 pixels reduces the quality of the details to the point where the ships look terrible. so these will be larger.

 

[Adm_Z]

No rush mate, and I don't even need odfs

I already have the odfs ans weapons, all I will need is the .sod's[EDIT: and textures] and i can make a HP map myself

Again, no rush and take your time. Quality often takes more time to produce.

 

[thunderfoot]

I have some news to report about play testing. A few of my testers, both from MSFC and my LAN group, have some concerns about some of the things I've done with the Colonials. The Colonials currently cannot harvest latinum nor can they trade. They currently have no way to re-crew an empty Colonial ship. This is because I have not given the Colonials transporters nor any type of Assault ship. They are quite capable of defending against an assault by a Stock race, due to the large number of crew on most of the ships.

All of this is by design. On purpose. I want the Colonials to play and feel very differently from a Stock race. Or an Add On race for that matter. Otherwise, they are not the Colonial Fleet. They are Starfleet with BSG ships and BSG weapons. Where's the fun in this? Might as well place Picard in the CIC of Pegasus and let him try to bore the Base Ships to death while Galactica escapes off the map.

The Cylons will probably play differently as well, when I get around to them. Crew will obviously not be a problem for the Cylons. Nor will re-crewing ships as long as the Resurrection Ship is available. Yes, I have one. I also have a Hub Ship and a few other things. I am currently trying to secure permission for public release in an A2 mod. The Cylons I have are not the ones I'd really like to use. Those are magnificent! The ones I do have have the following virtues.
- They work.
- They are not exclusive to BSA, which I have come to think of as "Battlestar Someday. After I Feel Like it."
- The person who has done these for other games has been willing to release his work in the past as long as he receives credit for making it. This means I can pass them along to Adm_Z and others whom wish to do BSG mods for A2. And yes I am going to phrase the permission request in such a way as to ask on behalf of the mod Adm_Z is working on.

I really am trying to recreate BSG as closely as A2 will allow me to. This may take some mental adjustments on the part of players. Version 0.95Beta of the mod will be ready later on this week to be sent out for testing. As soon as I hear from my testers, I should be able to release it here at MSFC. My LAN group says it is ready to go right now, but I still have to redo a few minor things.

 

[Starfox1701]

Klingon comando pod will make shuttles to board both friendly and enemy ships without violating BSG tech.

 

[thunderfoot]

Klingon comando pod will make shuttles to board both friendly and enemy ships without violating BSG tech.

True. But any ship captured or re-crewed this way becomes Klingon.

 

[EAS_Intrepid]

True. But any ship captured or re-crewed this way becomes Klingon.

Are you sure? The B5A2 mod used this weapon to deploy Earthforce Marines to capture enemy ships.

I think that specific special weapon captures the target for the race that fired that weapon.

I can do some testing, if you want, and post my results here.

 

[kjc733]

EAS is right, I did that to the Valkyrie, just copied the commando files and replace the sod with a raptor or shuttle.

 

[thunderfoot]

Are you sure? The B5A2 mod used this weapon to deploy Earthforce Marines to capture enemy ships.

I think that specific special weapon captures the target for the race that fired that weapon.

I can do some testing, if you want, and post my results here.

EAS is right, I did that to the Valkyrie, just copied the commando files and replace the sod with a raptor or shuttle.

Please do so. When it works, I can add it to the repertoire for the Colonials, then.

After I add this in, the mod is done except for testing!

 

[Adm_Z]

Hahaha, I'm doing the same thing in my my so I can have mixed tech specials. Thatway, if I fill the crew off a heavy raider, I can board it with my raptors and steal it. aslong as I have the ship, I get to build...well something I haven't thought of yet

as far as I know, it should work

 

[EAS_Intrepid]

Ok, so I did some testing.

It definately works. Thunderfoot, I think you are quite capable of modding such a quite simple special weapon yourself, so I won't post any files or anything.

Try it out. On my stock A2 install (that I mainly use to test new models and the like) a conversion of the Klingon commando team worked.

 

[thunderfoot]

Ok, so I did some testing.

It definately works. Thunderfoot, I think you are quite capable of modding such a quite simple special weapon yourself, so I won't post any files or anything.

Try it out. On my stock A2 install (that I mainly use to test new models and the like) a conversion of the Klingon commando team worked.

Well, thank you for the vote of confidence in my modding abilities. I am pretty sure they look more impressive from the outside. From my viewpoint, they are barely adequate for the task. In fact, I have made my bones as a modder off of blind luck and shamelessly nicking good ideas from everyone else.

Kidding aside, thanks for the heads up. Hadn't thought of it until now. Good idea, thanks to you and kjc733. Both of you will receive full credit in the mod for it.

 

[EAS_Intrepid]

Wow, full credit just for an advice...

If you need any help (especially concerning models) just give me a call (or a PM in this case) and I will help you out.


I am really looking forward to playing this, btw. I cannot be much of help with beta-testing, since I got a lot to do, though.



And here it comes again. See ya, I gotta log off. "3/83/1 respond to stroke" I guess I am needed.

 

[thunderfoot]

I asked in his thread if Adm_Z could show me how to do the things he displayed without using FleetOps coding. The missiles are doable, but the flak bursts do not appear to be without a great deal of effort. So I'll not be able to use these the way his mod will. On a brighter note, my weekend of hard work has moved this mod significantly towards successful completion. I've decided to drop one ship due to permission difficulties. The person whom made her is unavailable anywheres. Still, this will have forty four ships counting Maj's hero Battlestars.
I am going to include all of the weapons and physics I have for the Cylon Base Ship and Raider, so those whom have these ships already should be able to plug this stuff in and enjoy it a little. Should make up for having to drop one ship nicely.

 

[Majestic]

Out of curiosity what ship was it that you had to drop?

 

[thunderfoot]

Airago. Originally by Unknown Warrior. Ported to SFC by Kreeargh. I went back to Unknown Warrior's original model and started from there. Kreeargh's conversion was very specific about his version not being ported to anything other than SFC without his express written permission. More hassle than it is worth. It is only one ship and its functions are duplicated by the other ships which are not battlestars. Not really a big problem for it to not be included in the mod.

 

[Starfox1701]

Kreeargh hangs out on Dynaverse. He pops in about every other day or so.

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:
I crashlanded here to see how are you doing with your mod Thunderfoot.
And it seems you are doiung great. The Commando Teams is a good alternative to transporters and it can be used to recrew friendly ships and to help on the assault of enemy targets. BSA uses that too and I made my own version too. As for models, I use Raptors and heavy Raiders with very minimal joints, so no ventings or anything, that will help with gameplay.
Keep it up!

 

[Majestic]

Kreeargh hangs out on Dynaverse. He pops in about every other day or so.

I can also send a request to him on your behalf Thunderfoot if you wish. Like I did for Atolm. I have had contact with Kreeargh when I was wanting to release the Cygnus.

 

[thunderfoot]

I can also send a request to him on your behalf Thunderfoot if you wish. Like I did for Atolm. I have had contact with Kreeargh when I was wanting to release the Cygnus.

Thank you, but I have decided to drop the ship from the mod. I went back to the original model done by Unknown Warrior. When I imported it, I was surprised to find so many mesh errors. Airago's functions are amply duplicated by other ships I am including. TBH, it really isn't up to the quality level of, say the Titan or Viper. I'd like these ships to be as good as they can be. Even if this means I make you a little upset with me about, "everyone wanting BC quality ships in A2." lol. Your PRP ships are actually better than a great many BSG ships available for BC. I do not like the idea of removing a ship. I certainly do not want to start doing what others have done in a similar situation(polling the Community about what to include). But I am uncomfortable keeping a ship which does not quite measure up.

 

[Starfox1701]

Completely understandable

 

[thunderfoot]

Another weekend of hard work should finish this thing up into some semblance of releaseable order. I hope. I still have to hardpoint the new Vipers(send 'em to ya as fast as they are done, Adm_Z!) and create the Assault Marines Special Weapon, so ships can be re-crewed without transporters. But this is coming together quite nicely. I am pleased with the progress and the interest in this. At this point, it is more of a compilation mod than my own work. However, I made a public promise and MSFC will have the first BSG mod for A2 or I will By God know the reason.

 

[thunderfoot]

Just got done doing a one time run through to function check everything and...

IT WORKS! IT WORKS! IT WORKS!​

YEEEEEHAAAWWW!​

*Starts wild Victory Dance around his laptop!*​

oh. um. er. yeah. Sorry about that. Would you like some Eye Bleach to try and remove this image? I always keep a spare litre or two nearby during my travels around the Interwebs. Pics? Hier ist der Schlactschiff photos!

Spoiler: New Spash

Spoiler: Pegasus select

Spoiler: Refinery ship select

Spoiler: Vipers select

Still have to scale everything and then add in the new Viper models and the Assault Marine Special Weapon. Also need to check a few details, but this is clearly the endgame for completion of this mod. Thanks to all of you for your advice, encouragement, and support. Been a tough three weeks.

Icing on the cake: Tuesday, I go and interview for my new job which pays better, works fewer hours, and is much less stressful than my current one!

 

[Majestic]

Even if this means I make you a little upset with me about, "everyone wanting BC quality ships in A2." lol. Your PRP ships are actually better than a great many BSG ships available for BC.

Thanks for the compliment although I don't think they are that good.

I am not upset, it's your mod, not mine so it's all cool. I am just a little fussy at times as I hate lag when playing so it's a reason I am so strict with my own mods.

It's looking good, those images look great.

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:
The FTL button is evil!, I really like it and since it has the shape of the command buttons it gives the sensation of a more important role.
The scaling will be difficult for Fighters, because an accurate size will make them invisible, so you'll have to make them bigger. An option would be to do as I did and make the Fighters big enough to fit the entrance of Galactica's Flight pods, that way you will still give a sensation of sizes between the smaller ships and their carriers.

 

[thunderfoot]

Chiletrek!! Long time no see, my good friend! Of course I did the the Vipers and Raptors as you've suggested. To do them any other way makes them hard to see and use. This has gone from me doing a quick collection of already available ships to something of a compilation mod with contributions by a lot of people. I think everyone ought to be recognized for the things they've so generously contributed to what a lot of people will think is "my" mod. It is not "my" mod. I actually did what I normally do, which is sit still and be quiet while all the real modders did the important stuff. Right now, I'll have to list the credits in a separate page so I can fit everyone in. In case some do not know who did what, I'd like to publicly acknowledge those whom have helped me out.

Coxxon - without the wonderful things he did first, no BSG stuff of this quality would be available anywhere.

Backstept and Kreeargh - for the Cygnus. Liked her the first time I saw Backstept's beautiful rendition over at SciFi Meshes.

Mike McKeon - He did a great many conversions to A2 of Coxxon's work. He also did a lot of the ships which most people would not bother with.

Starfleet Kid - Way way back he did a class odf for a battlestar when we were discussing BSG stuff. He then very generously gave it to me for no reason other than he could. Hard to fail at anything with support from people such as he is. The version in the mod is pretty much the same one he did all those long months ago. The changes are minor details only.

Majestic - Has let me pretty much have my own way with his PRP BSG ships. It is easy to find ships which are straight conversions from SFC or BC. It is hard to take those conversions and render them down into something which the A2 game engine will use without complaint. Harder still to keep them so accurately resembling what we have come to know and like.

EAS_Intrepid - For Solaria, a beautiful ship which Maj then made look spectacular. If I am ever lucky enough to command a Colonial Battlestar, I really, really hope she is a Solaria class. Ooops. Before I forget, he gave me, gratis, the verah kewel Jump Drive sound effect. Rrrocks, dude! Vielen Dank!

Jetfreak - Admiral's Log pics. Texture tweaks. Advice. Hey, this is Jetfreak we're speaking of here. When he opens PhotoShop on his 'puter, pixels around the globe sit up and take notice.

kjc733 - Along with EAS_Intrepid, he suggested the Assault Marines Special Weapon. This is what I am finishing up this weekend for inclusion. A great idea. He has also taken one of the earliest versions of the mod and whipped it into something playable. A lot of the small adjustments and improvements you'll see in the Half Race Mod are his.

Rake - For putting out the Weapons Mod. By examining what he did, and how he put things together, I was made smarter about how weapons work. The Colonial Pulse weapons are inspired by his work.

Freyr - for planting the idea A2 does not have to have fixed bases. Prodded me into doing my best to keep everything mobile.

Lastly, but most certainly not least, Chiletrek! For spending hours and hours answering my questions about how to do things, even when he obviously had other things to do. Without his advice and encouragement, I'd have never done a first mod, let alone tried something such as this. He is as true a friend as anyone could wish for. His character and integrity are shining examples to the rest of us. His sense of humor and fun helps to keep me from taking A2 or myself too seriously. Pretty important stuff, this not being too serious about things. Because he is the one who got me interested in BSG in the frst place and helped make my first efforts so much better, I'd like to say thank you in a special way. The BSG Half Race Mod is hearby dedicated to my friend Chiletrek. Everyone should be fortunate enough to have someone like him around when they first start modding a game.