Some Thoughts About a Fleet Operations Blank Modding Platform.

[Dominus_Noctis]

Dominus_Noctis, I recall a Borg cube being something like 10,000 poly's or something. I could be mistaken as I am big enough to admit that I could be wrong in this aspect.

I didn't say anything about poly-counts, merely about the statements in regard to engine

I do understand adding a full race takes time, but don't you think it would be better to add the new factions then later go back and add the new features to the existing factions requested by the community? One feature I would like to see more than the ones listed is the alliances option of Armada 1, where you can change alliances during game with the AI and other players. But I don't expect the team to do it just because I want to see it.

Adding in a new race doesn't just take time, it takes coding capabilities (though that obviously takes time). You can think of FO as working up to adding in those new races, because they have entirely different game mechanics than the other factions. All of which requires a lot of new odf commands and a lot more improvements to the graphics engine, and a lot of other stuff which I'm more than glad to explain if you have specific questions.
The Alliances feature is in, and has been in since 3.0.0 . There is a page (Game Setup) on the Basics tab of the guide which shows where to find this feature.

I have nothing against the FO team, or even the mod, as I know others whom have posted here are of like mind and have stated. I just don't like the game play of the mod or the lag. It lags when I have only the Romulan, Klingon, Fed and Dominion on the map. No Borg, as I don't particularly like them in RTS games. The explosions could be a cause of the lag as it seems to happen more when combat is happening. However it's still a real turn off considering the machine I am running and I can play other mods like Achilles AOW in full swing without any lag issue at all.

You can always feel free to report your issues on the FO forum - Doca is always up for optimizing performance. I'm sorry I'm not acquainted with your specific issue though. We have about 80 regular online players now and none of them seem to experience those issues, so it would be wise to report them if you want to see it fixed.

In regard to those posting here "who are of like mind", it certainly doesn't seem so based on the rather condescending remarks made about FO, specifically in reference to models and gameplay, when Zaxxon seems to have created this whole thread specifically to address creating an FO modding platform that has none of the models or gameplay included. Seems extraordinarily odd that such specific statements would be made if they weren't just made in spite.

Just to clarify - I thought we were talking about FO as a modding base, not about its gameplay (which seems to keep being brought up instead of discussing the original statement).

 

[Lord_Trekie]

I didn't say anything about poly-counts, merely about the statements in regard to engine

That was my mistake, Nephalim was the one who said something about the polys, not you, and Majestic blundered into it.

 

[thunderfoot]

In regard to those posting here "who are of like mind", it certainly doesn't seem so based on the rather condescending remarks made about FO, specifically in reference to models and gameplay, when Zaxxon seems to have created this whole thread specifically to address creating an FO modding platform that has none of the models or gameplay included. Seems extraordinarily odd that such specific statements would be made if they weren't just made in spite.

Just to clarify - I thought we were talking about FO as a modding base, not about its gameplay (which seems to keep being brought up instead of discussing the original statement).

The "condescending remarks" you refer to may be mine. It is entirely okay to mention my name in public in connection with something I've posted. If I posted it here, I will stand behind it. If you found them condescending or offensive, I can restate them again publicly in a manner less so and welcome the opportunity to do so.

To return to the original topic,

ADM_Z if you choose to do something as stated in your first post, then go for it and good luck. If I can help, I'd like to do so, as I've already done with your BSG Add On mod for Fleet Ops. It ain't my cup of tea but I can see where someone may find such a thing useful.

 

[Majestic]

Ok, well i have noticed that alot of people don't like FO, not because of the coding, but because of the ships. I am just wondering on how many people would consider using it if it was a blank platform?

I was thinking...It wouldn't take much work for me to make a patcher that could get rid of all the ships, or replace them with stock models, and make a blank platform.

Would that be enough? How many would be interested? Are there any suggestions?

I am already in the process of writing detailed instructions on how to add ships to FO, and to utilize its features and UI. On top of this, there is a very large guide to modding in progress part of which will be by the FO devs themselves.

I really just need to know if it would actually be used, or if y'all just don't want to use FO at all. What do you think?

Quoted for reference.

In regard to those posting here "who are of like mind", it certainly doesn't seem so based on the rather condescending remarks made about FO, specifically in reference to models and gameplay, when Zaxxon seems to have created this whole thread specifically to address creating an FO modding platform that has none of the models or gameplay included. Seems extraordinarily odd that such specific statements would be made if they weren't just made in spite.

Just to clarify - I thought we were talking about FO as a modding base, not about its gameplay (which seems to keep being brought up instead of discussing the original statement).

Zaxxon did ask for suggestions, and such and naturally people would note what they like and dislike about the mod, as people do with all things. It's only natural.

However I must say back-seat moderating is frowned upon here. I'll let it go this time as you're new, however in future if you do have an issue about a thread going a bit off topic, please PM a Moderator or Admin about it. It's their/our job to do such jobs.

With that said however you're right and I do think we need to direct this thread back to the topic of a modding platform.

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

That was my mistake, Nephalim was the one who said something about the polys, not you, and Majestic blundered into it.

To stay a bit longer off topic: It's a little ironic that you mentioned the Intrepid having so many poly's, because normally in online play you see 10-20 of them at one time in many matches (due to being a good baseline unit) and yet 'we' (online players) don't experience any lag from them... and I know I've had many many more than 20 in IA to test crash-capabilities and yet found it very difficult to tax my respectable system (several hundred of the fellas).

The "condescending
remarks" you refer to may be mine. It is entirely okay to mention my name in public in connection with something I've posted. If I posted it here, I will stand behind it. If you found them condescending or offensive, I can restate them again publicly in a manner less so and welcome the opportunity to do so.

I didn't just refer to you, because it seems that it isn't just limited to one person - this isn't the first thread I've seen that on. Don't get me wrong - I don't like things being made PC: if the attitude is held, there is logically no way that prettying it up is going make them anything else than insincere (at least to the person stating those 'cleaned-up' phrases).

Quoted for reference.
Zaxxon did ask for suggestions, and such and naturally people would note what they like and dislike about the mod, as people do with all things. It's only natural.

However I must say back-seat moderating is frowned upon here. I'll let it go this time as you're new, however in future if you do have an issue about a thread going a bit off topic, please PM a Moderator or Admin about it. It's their/our job to do such jobs.

With that said however you're right and I do think we need to direct this thread back to the topic of a modding platform.

I have no issues with threads going off topic in general - my complaint was merely about the attitude (or rumors) being espoused in the off topic comments which I had hoped I had a right to argue against. Zaxxon asked for suggestions on how he should go about making FO a better modding platform for those who don't want all the other content as I understand it and I'm just sad that when someone mentions FO modding it has to be invariably accompanied with comments about the gameplay.

The one issue I foresee with removing all the units/vessels is that you would A) lose the examples if you run across issues. That's probably relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, but that's what I use to make examples for the ODF commands etc, and it might be more confusing for those who are not familiar with all the functionalities.

 

[Adm_Z]

Lol, actually, Tunder your physics project(Which I am very fond of) will work fine in FO as is. You just have to add it to...every...ship you want to use it.

This is all great, but a little off topic. I understand that there is a little problem with people not wanting to use someone elses mod because others say it will be better that way, though in my case my father would say, "Why re-invent the wheel when its already been made?" Thats why I use FO, and I am happy with what I have done. My question was just if anyone would be interested in something that would remove those explosions or sometimes high poly models while still allowing the use of the new UI, and odf commands, ect. If you don't feel comfortable using somebody mod as a base, I completely understand (though I don't see it being that different than using Majestics models in your mod.)

Lol thanks for the Support Dom and UNlol2, and I think everyone's point has been made clear. Though I sometimes see those who don't like FO as Holdouts, I definitely don't see mods that aren't for FO as inadequate, and I know there are legitimate reasons people don't play FO. But back to the topic, this is again about modding FO, and sofar, other than liking screwdrivers(I prefer sonic ones myself) I haven't seen many good reason to not mod FO that can be fixed by this Base idea. You can't really argue with preference, but if the problem is with the content of FO...well thats what the thread is about.

Been ninja'd by y'all. I have no issue with off-topic-ness either as long as it doesn't result in heated arguments.

 

[Lord_Trekie]

To stay a bit longer off topic: It's a little ironic that you mentioned the Intrepid having so many poly's, because normally in online play you see 10-20 of them at one time in many matches (due to being a good baseline unit) and yet 'we' (online players) don't experience any lag from them... and I know I've had many many more than 20 in IA to test crash-capabilities and yet found it very difficult to tax my respectable system (several hundred of the fellas).

I never have a problem with anything model-wise in FO myself, but I also do not use the Intrepid as a common unit, I'll employ them in the occasional scouting run and that's about it. I was simply providing some poly counts for a few units to back up what Nephalim said.

And to get myself back on topic, I think the idea of a blank FO would be awesome, assuming there was suitable guide to go with it.

 

[Adm_Z]

Oh yes, Dom, apoc and I, and soon the devs and even more are diligently working on a guide which should be a good aid in modding.

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

Incidentally, there are already code commented (and downloadable) templates for making a weapon, its ordinance file, and a ship .... although I really need to add in the unibeam since we just learned about it a week ago. Those can be cross referenced easily enough with the FO-ODF commands guide that is already up though (which is as much up to date as it can possibly be).

The difference between that and what DOCa is working on currently is that his guide is a port of the modding wiki that he and Optec use to create FO, and is thus much more intelligently arranged, and you can be assured that every description will be accurate and contain better/more examples than the current pieced-together one. It's starting to shape up to some sort of BBoM size thing, and it will contain stock command and explanations too (right now you have to cross reference the two if you use the 'visible' modding guide).

Alongside that there will probably be some explanations and downloadable FOscript tools created by Optec for generating tooltips more efficiently, calculating the three "values", etc further down the road.

 

[Majestic]

To stay a bit longer off topic:

When a Moderator, Site manager or Administrator has asked for the topic to get back on track all comments in regard to the off topic subject are to be dropped.

This earlier post is a defiance against a staff members decision, which is also against the codes of conduct of the site. We operate freely and all staff are volunteers and like any member should be respected, especially when a managing decision is made such as I did in my last post. I would suggest you take heed at this for in the future.

One more post by anyone going off topic and I'll be more than happy to lock the thread or delete all the off-topic posts. If anyone wishes to continue this line of discussion, either PM the members or take it over to the Fleet Operations site which is where the actual creators can get involved in this discussion. Everyone here has had their say on the matter and both sides of the discussion have been heard, I very much doubt anyone here wants a flame war which is where I can see this heading if left unchecked.

 

[Hellkite]

I'm for locking this topic ...

Given the nature of the post's topic is be set for criticism & debate "pro and con"

Which is a point less action given it all up to personal taste

Remember that Mods are Art and as so the worth of the mod is in the eyes of the end user

 

[Starfox1701]

This is a shame.

Good luck with this Adm_Z.

 

[Majestic]

Thread name changed due to the creation of this thread.

Now this thread is to remain on topic about Adm_Z's idea of a FO modding platform.

 

[dinosaurJR]

I love the idea of a blank canvas to build on. It just gives more options to the modding community.

Providing that there is a guide / suitably large / helpful community to support it, that is...

I really am keen to put some sort of WWII Warbirds technical demo together on FO, y'know, just to test what is possible and how it would look / play...

Only a couple of units - say two different fighters and a place holder base...

I think that a blank FO would be an excellent starting point!

 

[Adm_Z]

Well thats three of you. Does that mean I can start a movement now Thunder?

 

[Dan1025]

I have no issues with you creating a blank modding platform using FO Adm (which to be fair I probably should of said in my original post, sorry), my attitude toward modding has always been that if one person out there can get some use/enjoyment out of it, then go for it.

I may not end up using it personally (unless I one day come up with an idea that would require FO coding to work), but that's just down to personal preference and more than likely, my somewhat daft sentimental attachment to A2 based on how long I've been working with it (less about the type of screwdriver and more about the workman who has a particular screwdriver that is his 'favourite' ).

Ultimately anything that gives the A2 community as a whole more tools and options to use then the longer the community will survive and the more modders we will get. If this blank platform idea gets even one more person interested in modding, or prevents a mod being cancelled because the creator(s) can't think of a way to make it work in normal A2, then it'll be worth it

So yeah I say go for it, best of luck, and as always if you need any help with anything, I'm here

 

[CABAL]

I think that a blank version of FO would make for a great modding base. It would be like the Patch Project but with more features and more people that can get it to run.

less about the type of screwdriver and more about the workman who has a particular screwdriver that is his 'favourite'

Mine's the rusty old one with the chipped handle labeled 'A1' but I'm trying to get it so that you would never tell from the screenshots.

 

[Adm_Z]

I still prefer Sonic screwdrivers. Hey! there you go, a1- rusty old screw driver, a2-a good screwdriver, non the less, a2 with pp-electric screwdriver, and FO- sonic screwdriver.

 

[kjc733]

I think that a blank version of FO would make for a great modding base. It would be like the Patch Project but with more features and more people that can get it to run.

What he said. I love the patch project just for the number limiting, and whenever I see a new version of fleet-ops is out I take a look at the readme and wistfully think of the potential... but that's as far as I can go. A blank slate that people can mod themselves would be great to play with and I could think of one or two concepts straight off that could benefit from it.

 

[Undying_Nephalim]

I'm sorry if I implied A2 mods were inferior, I did not mean that at all. There are plenty of epic A2 mods, some of my favorites being Tactical Assault and Empires 2.0. Now with Megadroid's Mission Mod out people can even make campaigns in A2 as well which is epic. I suppose me joining in this discussion was to support Admiral Z's idea of FO as a blank modding base, since I don't feel that the system deserves any degradation from a modding point of view.

 

[Adm_Z]

MMM like most mods, will work for FO too

 

[thunderfoot]

Well thats three of you. Does that mean I can start a movement now Thunder?

I guess. I have decided from this moment on, anything or anyone which is FO related are things I'll stay away from. I find myself deeply irritated by the hard sell of FO going on around here lately. This is my last public comment ever on the subject anywhere.

I've also decided until this blows over, I'm gonna log out and not visit MSFC for awhile. Real Life for me is complicated and stressful enough. I do not want stress and complication in a place which until very recently I came to enjoy myself and relax. Far easier for me to go my own way for awhile. Don't want, like, or need the unecessary drama. Not interested in causing any more. So I'm going to do something I probably should have been smart enough to do when you first started this thread, Adm_Z.

I'm going ban myself from MSFC for about a month. Maybe in October, after all of the brouhaha about FO has died down, I'll check on the place. It's been a helluva ride, Maj. Thanks and see Y'all later.

P.S. Those of you who need to contact me already know how to do so via other channels.