MS3D Translucent Textures Help

[Undying_Nephalim]

Hey there everyone, TUN actually is in need of help...

I currently am trying to get translucent textures to show up on my models, but for some reason no matter what MS3D likes to export them nice and opaque. I looked at some models with translucent textures and it seems they have the _!additive after the name of the material. I've replicated this with no success. Any MS3D user have any idea how to export see-through textures into an SOD? Any help would be massively appreciated.

 

[Adm_Z]

Hey there everyone, TUN actually is in need of help...

I currently am trying to get translucent textures to show up on my models, but for some reason no matter what MS3D likes to export them nice and opaque. I looked at some models with translucent textures and it seems they have the _!additive after the name of the material. I've replicated this with no success. Any MS3D user have any idea how to export see-through textures into an SOD? Any help would be massively appreciated.

I don't know if you can. As far as I was aware, they make the model itself transparent, not the texture.

 

[CABAL]

_!additive makes the texture transparent in a way you might not want. The closer the pixel is to black, the more transparent it is. It's what's used for torpedoes and things. Try using the _!alpha tag. In A1, at least, it makes the alpha channel transparent. Also, check out this thread on MS3D tags.

 

[Undying_Nephalim]

_!additive makes the texture transparent in a way you might not want. The closer the pixel is to black, the more transparent it is. It's what's used for torpedoes and things. Try using the _!alpha tag. In A1, at least, it makes the alpha channel transparent. Also, check out this thread on MS3D tags.

I've tried all manner of tags on that thread, including _!alpha and !alpha_ , it seems no matter what my texture shows up nice and opaque. The texture does have alphas, as in MS3D it shows up translucent just fine, and when I use just !phong_ the lighting works normally. M3SD does not like me

EDIT: Oddly enough everything works just fine if I export it as an A1 SOD, it just does not seem to work when it's in A2 format...

 

[thunderfoot]

I dunno if it will help or not, TUN, but Terradhyne has a tutorial on making things transparent in MS3D. I went thru my 9 gigs of A2 stuff to see if I had anything which would help and found it. I have taken the liberty of attaching a copy to this post. I hope it helps.

 

[Undying_Nephalim]

I dunno if it will help or not, TUN, but Terradhyne has a tutorial on making things transparent in MS3D. I went thru my 9 gigs of A2 stuff to see if I had anything which would help and found it. I have taken the liberty of attaching a copy to this post. I hope it helps.

Ahh yeah that is a nice tutorial, though I think it's for 3DS Max rather then MS3D. I tried replicating the method though by putting that node under the mesh node but MS3D just doesn't want to comply. I have a feeling the issue is related to the SOD exporter I have since A1 SOD's export with transparencies just fine. Thank you for that tutorial though, it will help once I get an exporter for 3DS down the road.

 

[Starfox1701]

Use the _!noalpha tage for the transparant parts.

 

[Undying_Nephalim]

Use the _!noalpha tage for the transparant parts.

I just tried _!noalpha and it does not seem to work out. I tried it after both !phong_ and !lambert_, perhaps it needs a different prefix?

 

[Starfox1701]

just tried _!noalpha and it does not seem to work out

That makes no since as that is exactly how the stock fed yards are done

 

[Undying_Nephalim]

That makes no since as that is exactly how the stock fed yards are done

Something might just be wrong with my version of MS3D. I imported the Fed Yards to take a look and all the materials use _!default after them. Maybe MS3D just likes to mess things up for me

 

[thunderfoot]

Could you change the tags afterwards using a hex editor? It is what I do when I need to adapt an A2 ship to A1. And yeah, it is a pain in the butt. Because I have to go through the SOD file line by line to make sure I do not miss a texture entry.

BTW, you've not mentioned which version of MS3D you are using. The later versions have some changes which the earlier versions sometimes have difficulties with. If the file was created with one and then modified with another, this may be part of the problem. Happened to me when I was importing and hardpointing all those BSG ships. I had SOD files for some which had been done with an earlier version of MS3D and then exported using an earlier version of the importer/exporter. Caused me some headaches because my changes would not take.

 

[Undying_Nephalim]

BTW, you've not mentioned which version of MS3D you are using.

I current am using version 1.8.5 Beta. Perhaps my version is off or something of that nature?

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:
Are you trying to get an effect like a glass, like the biodome a fedbase had in armada2files? if that is the case, that mesh group must be selected (all of he faces, so select it using the groups tab) click on the face menu and then "reverse vertex order". As for the materials, use the !constant_NAME_!additive tags.

That should give you the effect, I did that for my Resurrection ship as well.

 

[Starfox1701]

Same version I use so that an't it

 

[Undying_Nephalim]

Thanks Chiletrek, that did indeed make it transparent, though only the faces that are facing the player appear that way, and any other that are "under" appear more solid for some reason. This will work perfectly for things like windows and flat transparent things, though for a completely see through object I'll just keep the thing in A1 format for now. Here's what it looks like in the A1 format:

Spoiler: Devil in the Dark

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:
Well, the effect gives a kind of semi-transparent effect, because full transparent effect will only make the section of the model fully invisible (like sections of the stock Fed turrets). Still I think it can at least help you a bit, you might add some alpha channel to the section under the semi-transparent effect and see if that works for you.

 

[Undying_Nephalim]

Normally I've just bypassed this problem by exporting my transparent models in A1 format, but I really need to export it in A2 format now since I need lightmaps on part of the model. This is the effect I want, nice semi transparent crystals:

Spoiler: Translucent in MS3D

However, no matter what tags I add to the materials they always show up extremely opaque:

Spoiler: But not see through in game...

I've tried the various answers provided here before and I'm not expecting anything new, but if anyone knows how to get translucent textures to work I'd be very grateful. :exter:

 

[thunderfoot]

I think FahreS did a tutorial on how to do this awhiles back. This should be available either here or over at A2F. I cannot remember the exact wording but I think the transparent or translucent part(s) have to be done as a separate mesh and then attached to the main model via a hardpoint or something. The name of this hardpoint also is different from the regular names we give hardpoints, as well. I think it is "c_tm_translucent" or something similar. I do remember it is a mesh which is transparent or translucent, not a texture. Like I said, FahreS' did a tutorial on this and I am sure it is explained with all of the quality he always uses.

 

[Starfox1701]

Set the Material to _!noalpha on the end. A2 will then interpert the alpha map as transparncey. the whiter the alpha the mor solid it will appear. Black will be invisible

 

[Terradyhne]

Milkshape shows the transparency other than A2 does and here is the explanation from the Assimsoft plugins rtf-file, for the material tags:

Armada (all editions)

The importer will set up a skeletal structure and material naming conventions to make it export almost exactly as it was imported.
The importer could be used to convert A2 models to A1 models, as long as any A2-material-name-tags are removed. It could also be used for porting to other games.
The importer is quite dedicated in finding your textures so this shouldn't be an issue.
There is one problem that I have been unable to fix where for some unknown reason some meshes are flipped. I really haven't a clue as to how this could happen.

Exporting

There is a common exporter for both Armada I and II, where you select which game you want from the file-type dropdown menu when you save.

Make sure you only use uncompressed 24/32-bit TGA files for textures as that’s what Armada I/II requires.

Changing the lighting/texturing

To force the lighting model for different materials to be other than the default "lambert" model, prefix "!lambert_", "!constant_" or "!phong_" to the name of the material. I myself am not certain on how the different models work, and how the settings affect them. I leave this as an experiment to you.

To force a different texturing type for meshes, put "_!" followed by the texturing type required, at the end of the material name. This is our equivalent of the specially named child points that the 3dsmax exporter requires for customization.

Valid texturing types...
· default - default
· additive - Use additive blending
· translucent - Semi transparent
· alphathreshold - Use for objects using alpha channel 'cut outs'. Alpha channels will have hard edged 'threshold' but objects will be drawn quickly.
· alpha - Uses entire alpha channel. Object will require sorting, so will have performance implications.
· wireframe - Use wireframe graphics.
· opaque - (Armada 2 only) Use the alpha channel for glow, not transparency. This seems to have the same effect as "default" for Armada 2.
· noalpha - (Armada 2 only) A special one put in by me that sets the default texturing type but also turns off glow, so the alpha channel has no effect. Normally, If you have a texture without an alpha channel, Armada 2 will treat it as if it had a fully white alpha channel. Therefore, the texture would glow: but not when the texturing is set to "noalpha".

Ok, so like most you are probably confused by that. I will give you some examples of material names and their effect...
· !lambert_whatever_!noalpha - The material uses lambert lighting, and the noalpha texture type. (This will only work with Armada 2). The "noalpha" type works the same as the "default" type but the alpha channel is turned off.
· mynormaltexture - Nothing special here as no tags have been embedded in the name. It will use the default lighting model (=lambert) and the default texture type (=default).
· !phong_crazy - Will use the default texture type and the phong lighting model.
· crazyby_!additive - Will use the default lighting model and the additive texturing type.

I know this is complex, but its more than you need.. just use standard 32 bit textures with a black alpha channel, or a custom alpha channel, with all the defaults.

 

[Adm_Z]

Normally I've just bypassed this problem by exporting my transparent models in A1 format, but I really need to export it in A2 format now since I need lightmaps on part of the model. This is the effect I want, nice semi transparent crystals:

Spoiler: Translucent in MS3D

However, no matter what tags I add to the materials they always show up extremely opaque:

Spoiler: But not see through in game...

I've tried the various answers provided here before and I'm not expecting anything new, but if anyone knows how to get translucent textures to work I'd be very grateful. :exter:

The Translucent section, which may need to be overlayed onto the main section, must be exported in a1 format with the !constant and !additive lables. Then it will be transparent.

 

[thunderfoot]

Could Staff please Sticky the post above by Terradhyne? It is a solid explanation and makes the whole thing...ahem..."clear", lol. I don't normally play the Rep Game, Terradhyne. However in this case, I'll gladly make an exception. +Rep for You!

 

[Undying_Nephalim]

@Terradyhne
I've tried virtually every combination of tags and no matter what it either shows up completely opaque and dark or opaque and glowing. I figured something like !phong_b1_!translucent would work but nothing works, no partial or complete transparency at all. Does the alpha channel on a texture need to be less then 50% white? Does the alpha channel have to be on a completely separate black and white texture and put in the second texture slot? Maybe my version of MS3D has something to do with it (1.8.5 BETA)? I'll attach my model and the textures to a post if that will help determine where I'm going wrong.

@Adm_Z
Background object classlabels can't use overlay SOD's in Fleet Ops apparently.

 

[Starfox1701]

Set the Material to _!noalpha on the end. A2 will then interpert the alpha map as transparncey. the whiter the alpha the more solid it will appear. Black will be invisible

I'm telling you this is how its done. Just check the stock yards.

 

[Undying_Nephalim]

I'm telling you this is how its done. Just check the stock yards.

I've tried adding _!noalpha to the end and it does not work. When I import the stock yards from A2 to look at them the translucent materials use !constant_fyard2_!default for me. As you might guess that does not work for me either. Are there multiple versions of the SOD exporter/importer? Maybe I'm using a version that does not import or export properly.

 

[Katala]

Could Staff please Sticky the post above by Terradhyne? It is a solid explanation and makes the whole thing...ahem..."clear", lol. I don't normally play the Rep Game, Terradhyne. However in this case, I'll gladly make an exception. +Rep for You!

Only a thread can be Sticky'd not a single post sorry.

 

[Starfox1701]

Once you have the model exported with that tag you tinker with the alpha in the texture till you get the transparency you want. Like I said whiter is more solid. just work the alpha through the grays till you get somthing that you like.

 

[Adm_Z]

@Adm_Z
Background object classlabels can't use overlay SOD's in Fleet Ops apparently.

How about the replaceweapon? Or you could simply make it two objects and put one ontop of the other in the map editor. Be sure you export the transparent section in A1 format otherwise it will not be transparent.

 

[FahreS]

semi-transparency does only work if you export your model as Armada 1 SOD
normal transparency (cut outs) does work with armada 2 sods too.
i believe the cut outs are possible with the _!noalpha tag after the material name. You know, i didnt do such things for a long time now...
Maybe you have to delete any other tags (like "!phong_") from the material name

 

[Adm_Z]

Yeah, I don't know if you are trying to get the same effect as SOD based weapons, but you have to give them the constant and additive tags, and then export in a1 format, then it will make the things closest to black transparent.