[Help] Hardpointing in MS3D Error

[swilson0907]

I keep trying to get help for this and I am not getting it . I have been trying to learn how to use MS3D and I have also been transfering SODs through the exporter to change their textures. Each time, after I finish a model and import it to a SOD file, the ships or stations. I think there is a step that I wasn't told that has to be done before transfering a mesh (either partially finished (not started by) or a file back to SOD if you have edited the textures).

I think this is the case because I have looked at all of the models (SODs) that are at fault in UVM1 and found that they show NO Harrdpoints at all. You can see this in the attached screen shot.

What can I do to make sure that the MS3D models that I create and or import as a SOD to change the textures and then export back to a SOD has their hardpoints and actually use their weapons in game because as of right now, they are not using their weapons ingame except some special weapons as long as it doens't involve firing a weapon and also using Self Destruct.

Will anyone please help me fix this very annoying and drastic problem that I am exsperiencing?

 

[thunderfoot]

I think I see what has happened to you now. Whenever I export a model from another format to the A1/A2 .SOD format via MS3D, all I export is the mesh. Not the hardpoints. The new A1/A2 mesh must be hardpointed again so it can work correctly ingame.

 

[swilson0907]

I think I see what has happened to you now. Whenever I export a model from another format to the A1/A2 .SOD format via MS3D, all I export is the mesh. Not the hardpoints. The new A1/A2 mesh must be hardpointed again so it can work correctly ingame.

What about the models that I finish up myself that aren't completed by their creators? I finish up the mesh by adding the hardpoints and save (export as the SOD file) and then the same thing happens again.

Each time, the weapons (the main weapons) don't work but the two special weapons that I have previously mentioned do.

 

[Huet]

Hm, I think you might be having an issue similar to mine with UTthingy, the HPs are there but they aren't visible until you select them in the HP Editor view... I'm sorry I can't be more clear but I can't find utmv right now or I'd take screenshots to show you what I mean

 

[swilson0907]

Hm, I think you might be having an issue similar to mine with UTthingy, the HPs are there but they aren't visible until you select them in the HP Editor view... I'm sorry I can't be more clear but I can't find utmv right now or I'd take screenshots to show you what I mean

I guess that is possible, but that doesn't explain why the weapons aren't working ingame.

It seems the Hardpoints are the key to this while problem. It is the hardpoints the weapons fire from that I understand and its the hardpoints that don't show up in UTMV1.

I might be wrong but they sound connected to me.

 

[Huet]

Ah sorry I thought you just couldn't see the hardpoints in UTMV, didn't realise they weren't working in game. Make sure the hardpoint names match between the odf and finished sod (problem could be naming it hardpoint1 in MS and then hp1 in the odf).


Could you try, just for me, to change the weapons that aren't working with a weapon that you know for a fact currently works in game (like the default phaser on the fed scout) and then test it in game?
I know it sounds tedious but give it a shot, especially if you're using an edited or completely custom weapon odf.

 

[swilson0907]

Ah sorry I thought you just couldn't see the hardpoints in UTMV, didn't realise they weren't working in game. Make sure the hardpoint names match between the odf and finished sod (problem could be naming it hardpoint1 in MS and then hp1 in the odf).

For the models that I finished up (meshes that I downloaded that needed hardpoints still) I set up like this:

Spoiler: Hardpoint Setup:

"h_hp01" and so on until the ship or station has all the hardpoints I wanted it to have.

For the ships that I changed only the textures to, I didn't edit anything but the textures (Thunderfoot, don't understand why the model would have to be re-hardpointed for only the textures being changed).

Also I don't understand why this is happening to the files I create and the ones that I turn into .SOD.

 

[Amateur]

Hmm, I know this will be a pain but could you do me a favour and walk us through the process step by step in short, concise sentences?

For example:

1. Import the model into milkshape
2. Create the h_scene root node
3. etc, etc

Anywhere along the line there could be a problem. Even something as ridiculously simple as the mesh node having one extra letter or root not being at the exact centre can cause problems.

EDIT:

Also, would it be possible to grab a screenshot of your 'joints' panel just prior to export? Thanks muchly

 

[swilson0907]

Hmm, I know this will be a pain but could you do me a favour and walk us through the process step by step in short, concise sentences?

For example:

1. Import the model into milkshape
2. Create the h_scene root node
3. etc, etc

Anywhere along the line there could be a problem. Even something as ridiculously simple as the mesh node having one extra letter or root not being at the exact centre can cause problems.

EDIT:

Also, would it be possible to grab a screenshot of your 'joints' panel just prior to export? Thanks muchly

Ok, I'll do that.


I believe this applies to the meshes that I complete right?

Because for the ones that I just change the textures, that is all I do, I tell the model to use a different texture by selecting the texture and searching for and attaching the wanted texture. That is all I do then I save the file as a SOD again.

 

[Amateur]

I believe this applies to the meshes that I complete right?

Because for the ones that I just change the textures, that is all I do, I tell the model to use a different texture by selecting the texture and searching for and attaching the wanted texture. That is all I do then I save the file as a SOD again.

Hmm...better post a pic of the joint panel for the retextured one as well, just to be on the safe side .

 

[swilson0907]

Hmm...better post a pic of the joint panel for the retextured one as well, just to be on the safe side .

I can't post something that I don't have, I didn't create the original model. I only edited the SOD file through MS3D to have the Aurora Class (Ancients Warship) textures.

I only have the MS3D file with the edited textures, its the only thing that I did right away since the model only was already hardpointed and should have worked in game, I pre-tested it with the Ancients' armaments befoe changing the textures and it worked then.

 

[swilson0907]

Ah sorry I thought you just couldn't see the hardpoints in UTMV, didn't realise they weren't working in game. Make sure the hardpoint names match between the odf and finished sod (problem could be naming it hardpoint1 in MS and then hp1 in the odf).


Could you try, just for me, to change the weapons that aren't working with a weapon that you know for a fact currently works in game (like the default phaser on the fed scout) and then test it in game?
I know it sounds tedious but give it a shot, especially if you're using an edited or completely custom weapon odf.

The weapons that the ship is using are the same weapons on my Ancients' Aurora Class Warship and they already work perfectly and as I have already said, these weapons worked on the ship before changing the textures. The same weapons are used on all the ships that aren't working after changing the textures.

The weapons on my Wraith Cruiser that isn't working work on the Hiveship.

Process of elimination thus says it isn't the weapons but something to do with the ships themselves after being saved as a SOD.

 

[Amateur]

I can't post something that I don't have, I didn't create the original model. I only edited the SOD file through MS3D to have the Aurora Class (Ancients Warship) textures.

I only have the MS3D file with the edited textures, its the only thing that I did right away since the model only was already hardpointed and should have worked in game, I pre-tested it with the Ancients' armaments befoe changing the textures and it worked then.

That's what I mean. If you look on the left hand side of the screen ther will be four tabs, the last one being called 'joints'. Open this panel and get a screen grab if you can.

 

[swilson0907]

That's what I mean. If you look on the left hand side of the screen ther will be four tabs, the last one being called 'joints'. Open this panel and get a screen grab if you can.

I already tried that and the hardpoints show up there (even in an MS3D) model that is saved. The SOD file when saved as a SOD showed the Hardpoints there and in place, after saved and even sent back to MS3D to see what the problem was, they were gone.

I'll e-mail you the files so you can see them for yourself if you can PM me your e-mail address, then you can have a better look at them. I'll let you see all of the SOD files that are causing me this problems.

 

[Amateur]

PM sent, I'll see what I can do as soon as I get the stuff

 

[Amateur]

Sincerest apologies for double posting, oh great moderator gods , I didn't want this to become obscured as I think it's the solution to the problems swilson's having.

Ok then, I got your files through and had a wee look. Starting with the wraith Hiveship I found the problem - all of the hardpoints were assigned to each other.

What I guess you did was just keep creaing joints without selecting the h_hardpoints node. This is important, as otherwise armada gets very funny and may not recognise any hardpoint.

What you should do, is to select h_hardpoints after you place a joint. Like this:

Add joint
Double click h_hardpoints in the joint panel
Add joint
Double click h_hardpoints in the joint panel

And so on and so forth until the hardpoints are done. That should do it.

The Achilles and Wraith Cruiser have no heirarchy in their ms3d files, so I'd assume that's the problem. While I'm on that subject, the Replicator Class has an incorrect one. To even export to SOD you need assimsofts plugin, so I'll give you a little hint that saves a lot of time:

Get the model ready to export and everything; but don't do any joints.
Export the model as an Armada 2 .SOD
Under the 'Tools' menu, you'll have one called 'Assimsoft's Hardpoint Tool'. Click it.
Select SOD as the file in the little box.
Select the file.

And there you go, one heirarchy. All that needs to be done is to have the hardpoints added - which I've said a little about up there.

Also, the problem of the backward facing ship can be fixed by selecting everything (before hardpointing) and clicking mirror front/back. For reference, ships need to be pointing towards the base of the screen when in the top view to face the right way.

 

[swilson0907]

Sincerest apologies for double posting, oh great moderator gods , I didn't want this to become obscured as I think it's the solution to the problems swilson's having.

Ok then, I got your files through and had a wee look. Starting with the wraith Hiveship I found the problem - all of the hardpoints were assigned to each other.

What I guess you did was just keep creaing joints without selecting the h_hardpoints node. This is important, as otherwise armada gets very funny and may not recognise any hardpoint.

What you should do, is to select h_hardpoints after you place a joint. Like this:

Add joint
Double click h_hardpoints in the joint panel
Add joint
Double click h_hardpoints in the joint panel

And so on and so forth until the hardpoints are done. That should do it.

The Achilles and Wraith Cruiser have no heirarchy in their ms3d files, so I'd assume that's the problem. While I'm on that subject, the Replicator Class has an incorrect one. To even export to SOD you need assimsofts plugin, so I'll give you a little hint that saves a lot of time:

Get the model ready to export and everything; but don't do any joints.
Export the model as an Armada 2 .SOD
Under the 'Tools' menu, you'll have one called 'Assimsoft's Hardpoint Tool'. Click it.
Select SOD as the file in the little box.
Select the file.

And there you go, one heirarchy. All that needs to be done is to have the hardpoints added - which I've said a little about up there.

Also, the problem of the backward facing ship can be fixed by selecting everything (before hardpointing) and clicking mirror front/back. For reference, ships need to be pointing towards the base of the screen when in the top view to face the right way.

Thank you.

Could you possibly give me a tutortial to remember to do all that because I was under the impretion that you only need to click h_hardpoints once when first starting to hardpoint the model and then continue on from there. k_merse never said anything about that in his posting on how to hardpoint a model, actually no one ever told me that needed to be done.

I hate to ask this, but could you possibly help me fix the files I sent you well I attempt to try and create a model right for once and to do this right? I'm not confident I'm going to get those files right but I like to see them in game working.

I think I'll try creating a smalle Wraith station or something for the Pegusas Replicators.

 

[Amateur]

Thank you.

Could you possibly give me a tutortial to remember to do all that because I was under the impretion that you only need to click h_hardpoints once when first starting to hardpoint the model and then continue on from there. k_merse never said anything about that in his posting on how to hardpoint a model, actually no one ever told me that needed to be done.

I hate to ask this, but could you possibly help me fix the files I sent you well I attempt to try and create a model right for once and to do this right? I'm not confident I'm going to get those files right but I like to see them in game working.

I think I'll try creating a smalle Wraith station or something for the Pegusas Replicators.

There is a tutorial on A2 files that goes into a lot more detail than I did. Do a search for:

Milkshape 3D SOD Tutorial

And you should find it. Major Payne is/was one of the greats in modding, and his tutorial helped a whole generation learn from pretty much nothing.

I can get all the heirarchy set up for you and everything, but I've no idea where you want the hardpoints so I'll leave that to you. Plus, it'll be good practice .

 

[swilson0907]

There is a tutorial on A2 files that goes into a lot more detail than I did. Do a search for:

Milkshape 3D SOD Tutorial

And you should find it. Major Payne is/was one of the greats in modding, and his tutorial helped a whole generation learn from pretty much nothing.

I can get all the heirarchy set up for you and everything, but I've no idea where you want the hardpoints so I'll leave that to you. Plus, it'll be good practice .

Ok, thank you, that will be a good start for me. I appreciate it.

 

[swilson0907]

This appears to not be fixed yet even with all the attempts between me and Amateur to do just that and to fix it. Attempts by him that I really appreciate.

I chose to hardpoint two ships (of all of the ones) that Amateur fixed for me all I needed to do was hardpoint them and following the directions he gave about double clicking on the h_hardpoint node before placing each new hardpoint, well guess what, even doing that they still don’t work in game. My first ship that I hardpointed and put in game is the Wraith Cruiser (my Version 1 version from Armada2files) it’s still not using its weapons. Thinking I made a mistake I used the original fixed by Amateur ( I copied the MS3D files to have backups) and I did it again with the same problems occurring in game again. So I tried the Wraith Cruiser (my Version 2 for Bridge Commander/ Bridge Commander Files), it too had the same problems.

Here are some screen shots to accompany what I am saying, this time I also have ones from MS3D clearly showing the hardpoints:

Spoiler: For Screenshot Pictures

The Screen Shot with the Wraith Cruiser, the ship being attacked, (the other two ships are set as Team 2 with the Cruiser Team 1) – The Cruiser is taking all the attacks and not firing its weapons back at all., even when ordered to attack.

The Second Screenshot with the Wraith Cruiser Version 2 also shows that the ship doesn’t use its weapons and is also about to be destroyed.

Ok, right now I am not going to post any more screenshots or more text about this problem because I’m about ready to complain every time I see this happening in game, I really thought between Amateur and the tips he gave me I had this problem fixed.

Please Help Me Fix This Problem Thank you.

One other thing, I was wondering how do I get to keep the original hardpoint locations for the ships that I only retextured and didn’t change anything but the textures?

 

[Amateur]

This is really, really weird. From the screenshots, nothing looks wrong...

Swilson, I've got to pop out in a minute; but if possible could you paste the .odf file? I doubt it'll reveal anything, but you never know.

It'll be a while before I'm able to look at it though, so it won't be a quick fix

 

[swilson0907]

This is really, really weird. From the screenshots, nothing looks wrong...

Swilson, I've got to pop out in a minute; but if possible could you paste the .odf file? I doubt it'll reveal anything, but you never know.

It'll be a while before I'm able to look at it though, so it won't be a quick fix

I'm wondering if there is a flaw with my MS3D program because it is a beta version, the newest Beta actually.

I'll post the ODF files for both Wraith Cruisers.

I was wondering though, since I can at least view models in MS3D couldn't I create a hardpoint map for where I want them and have someone hardpoint and save them for me as SOD files?

Spoiler: Wraith Cruiser Version 1

// Begin main properties

unitName = "Wraith Cruiser"
tooltip = "Wraith Cruiser"
verboseTooltip = "The Wraith Cruiser is usually commanded by a loyal Wraith Commander to what Hive the ship belongs to. Besides other Commanders, there are many Wraith warriors aboard the ships. The Wraith Cruiser like the Hiveship has containment Units for the many humans that they captued during the cullings of many worlds, only there are far less containment units than a Hiveship posses."

race = "species8472"
buildTime = 25.0
officerCost = 95
biomatterCost = 850
maxShields = 0
maxHealth = 7650
shieldGeneratorHitPoints = 0
engine****Points = 3500
weapon****Points = 3500
lifeSupportHitPoints = 3500
sensor****Points = 3500
shieldRate = 10.0
maxSpecialEnergy = 9000
specialEnergyRate = 10
shipclass = "cruiser"
attackPower = 1.00f
intrinsicValue = 0.50f
engine****Percent = 4.0f
lifeSupportHitPercent = 7.5f
weapon****Percent = 5.0f
shieldGeneratorHitPercent = 7.0f
sensor****Percent = 7.0f
crewHitPercent = 4.0f
hullHitPercent = 37.0f

//**********************************************************************
//Possible Craft Names
possibleCraftNames =
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"

//**********************************************************************
//ART PARAMETERS & WEAPON NAMES

// Cruiser Pulse Beam Weapons
weapon1 = "wcruiserpulse"
weaponHardpoints1 = "hp01" "hp04" "hp06" "hp07"

// Cruiser Pulse Beam Weapons
weapon2 = "wcruiserpulse"
weaponHardpoints2 = "hp02" "hp03" "hp05"

// Self Destruct
weapon3 = "gselfdes"
weaponHardpoints3 = "hp04"

// Wraith Hull Regeneration
weapon4 = "gwraithhullregeration"
weaponHardpoints4 = "hp04"

// Hardpoints to hit for various systems and other locations.
sensorsTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"
criticalTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"
hullTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"
shieldGeneratorTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"
lifeSupportTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"
enginesTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"

//**********************************************************************
// Message & Sound Parameters
//**********************************************************************
eventSelect = "Cruiser2Select"
eventAcknowledge = "Cruiser2Acknowledge"
eventAttack = "Cruiser2Attack"
eventStop = "Cruiser2Stop"
eventMove = "Cruiser2Move"
eventRepair = "Cruiser2Repair"

//**********************************************************************
// Begin misc properties
saneCrewLossMethod = 1
weaponYellow = 1.0f
weaponRed = 2.0f
ScaleSOD = 1.6
physicsFile = "scruise1phys.odf"
trekPhysicsFile = "trek_scruise1phys.odf"
avoidanceClass = 5
canAttackPlanets = 1
fireball = "xfireblg"
shipType = "C"
shieldDelay = 5.0f
rangeScan = 2500.0f
damagedScan = 1500.0
shieldProtection = 1.0
enginesRepairTime = 0.1f
lifeSupportRepairTime = 0.02f
weaponsRepairTime = 0.1f
shieldGeneratorRepairTime = 0.1f
sensorsRepairTime = 0.1f
enginesCrewLoss = 2.0f
lifeSupportCrewLoss = 2.5f
weaponsCrewLoss = 1.0f
shieldGeneratorCrewLoss = 1.0f
sensorsCrewLoss = 0.0f
lifeSupportLoss = 2.0f
weldingRadius = 1.0
classLabel = "craft"
aiName = "CraftProcess"
ship = 1
has_hitpoints = 1
combat = 1
alert = 1
transporter = 1
SHOW_SW_AUTONOMY = 1
SHOW_MOVEMENT_AUTONOMY = 1
can_sandd = 1
can_explore = 1

Spoiler: Wraith Cruiser Version 2

// Begin main properties

unitName = "Wraith Cruiser"
tooltip = "Wraith Cruiser"
verboseTooltip = "The Wraith Cruiser is usually commanded by a loyal Wraith Commander to what Hive the ship belongs to. Besides other Commanders, there are many Wraith warriors aboard the ships. The Wraith Cruiser like the Hiveship has containment Units for the many humans that they captued during the cullings of many worlds, only there are far less containment units than a Hiveship posses."

race = "species8472"
buildTime = 25.0
officerCost = 95
biomatterCost = 850
maxShields = 0
maxHealth = 7650
shieldGeneratorHitPoints = 0
engine****Points = 3500
weapon****Points = 3500
lifeSupportHitPoints = 3500
sensor****Points = 3500
shieldRate = 10.0
maxSpecialEnergy = 9000
specialEnergyRate = 10
shipclass = "cruiser"
attackPower = 1.00f
intrinsicValue = 0.50f
engine****Percent = 4.0f
lifeSupportHitPercent = 7.5f
weapon****Percent = 5.0f
shieldGeneratorHitPercent = 7.0f
sensor****Percent = 7.0f
crewHitPercent = 4.0f
hullHitPercent = 37.0f

//**********************************************************************
//Possible Craft Names
possibleCraftNames =
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"
"Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser" "Cruiser"

//**********************************************************************
//ART PARAMETERS & WEAPON NAMES

// Cruiser Pulse Beam Weapons
weapon1 = "wcruiserpulse"
weaponHardpoints1 = "hp01" "hp04" "hp06" "hp07"

// Cruiser Pulse Beam Weapons
weapon2 = "wcruiserpulse"
weaponHardpoints2 = "hp02" "hp03" "hp05"

// Self Destruct
weapon3 = "gselfdes"
weaponHardpoints3 = "hp04"

// Wraith Hull Regeneration
weapon4 = "gwraithhullregeration"
weaponHardpoints4 = "hp04"

// Hardpoints to hit for various systems and other locations.
sensorsTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"
criticalTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"
hullTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"
shieldGeneratorTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"
lifeSupportTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"
enginesTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03" "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07"

//**********************************************************************
// Message & Sound Parameters
//**********************************************************************
eventSelect = "Cruiser2Select"
eventAcknowledge = "Cruiser2Acknowledge"
eventAttack = "Cruiser2Attack"
eventStop = "Cruiser2Stop"
eventMove = "Cruiser2Move"
eventRepair = "Cruiser2Repair"

//**********************************************************************
// Begin misc properties
saneCrewLossMethod = 1
weaponYellow = 1.0f
weaponRed = 2.0f
ScaleSOD = 25.6
//SOD Scale High Because Ship isn't yet half the size of the Wraith Hiveship
physicsFile = "scruise1phys.odf"
trekPhysicsFile = "trek_scruise1phys.odf"
avoidanceClass = 5
canAttackPlanets = 1
fireball = "xfireblg"
shipType = "C"
shieldDelay = 5.0f
rangeScan = 2500.0f
damagedScan = 1500.0
shieldProtection = 1.0
enginesRepairTime = 0.1f
lifeSupportRepairTime = 0.02f
weaponsRepairTime = 0.1f
shieldGeneratorRepairTime = 0.1f
sensorsRepairTime = 0.1f
enginesCrewLoss = 2.0f
lifeSupportCrewLoss = 2.5f
weaponsCrewLoss = 1.0f
shieldGeneratorCrewLoss = 1.0f
sensorsCrewLoss = 0.0f
lifeSupportLoss = 2.0f
weldingRadius = 1.0
classLabel = "craft"
aiName = "CraftProcess"
ship = 1
has_hitpoints = 1
combat = 1
alert = 1
transporter = 1
SHOW_SW_AUTONOMY = 1
SHOW_MOVEMENT_AUTONOMY = 1
can_sandd = 1
can_explore = 1

 

[Amateur]

I'm wondering if there is a flaw with my MS3D program because it is a beta version, the newest Beta actually.

Most certainly possible, the plugins were written quite a long time ago after all. Try getting an older version and having a go with that; may be something to do with the export script not working.

Also, that would explain the weird notification I got importing the models...

There's older versions here on the site, I use 1.8.4 if it helps.

 

[Huet]

I understand there are actual problems with the models, but since they're working in game and you said previously the special weapons work, could you at least just try what I suggested and replace the non-special weapons (in the ships odf) with default unmodded stock game weapons to see if it's an issue with your ordinance or something?
It might not solve all your issues, but it would at least eliminate one potential future avenue of debugging

 

[swilson0907]

I understand there are actual problems with the models, but since they're working in game and you said previously the special weapons work, could you at least just try what I suggested and replace the non-special weapons (in the ships odf) with default unmodded stock game weapons to see if it's an issue with your ordinance or something?
It might not solve all your issues, but it would at least eliminate one potential future avenue of debugging

I have already done that and it didn't work. The ships themselves worked ingame when they weren't retextured if you are talking about the retextured ones that were SOD. The other ones that I converted over, don't even use stock weapons, I have already said that when I answered this already. Especially when the drones fo Ancient ships actually worked on these ships before they were converted and only after the textures were edited in MS3D to make them Ancient ships did the problem start.

Stock Weapons don't work on these ships either, further more, the Hardpoints don't show up on the ships in UTMV1 nor do they show up when the at fault SOD files are sent back into MS3D but when the ships are saved as a SOD after being edited with the new textures, the Hardpoints are there, same with the models that I have completed myself. Then they vanish when the SOD file is created like they never existed at all, its almost like they need to be locked to the model or stamped into place and there doesn't appear to be any key to "lock" them, LOL.

Sorry to sound angry or harsh about this, but I did try what you were suggesting before posting the first part of this, that is why I said Weapons and not Ancient Weapons and seperated the two forms of weapons between standard and special to make it simple. Sorry if I confuesed you.

 

[swilson0907]

Most certainly possible, the plugins were written quite a long time ago after all. Try getting an older version and having a go with that; may be something to do with the export script not working.

Also, that would explain the weird notification I got importing the models...

There's older versions here on the site, I use 1.8.4 if it helps.

I don't know where to get an older version of the software and I don't want to have to buy it again just to revert to an older version. I have this one activated and can at least make models, I haven't created something on my own yet because I have been practicing with the existing models but it is now time to do that I guess.

What was the weird notification that you got when you imported the models? I have never gotten any notifications with the models when importing them or even exporting them. Sometimes MS3D opens them without textures but I just thought that had something to do with the textures being located in a different folder (namely with the Aurora Class if they are using those textures). I believe that has to be the case for that problem because in the game the ships have their new textures.

I can for certain tell you that the ship that was moving backwards in my game is now fixed thanks to you Amateur, it isn't using its weapons still, but it is flying right. So for that one problem thank you very much.

Also you did say you couldn't help me hardpoint the ships because you ddin't know where I would want them placed. I have come up with a crude version of a hardpoint map for each ship by doing a screen capture of the ships in MS3D and then color coding the certain hardpoints that I want in correspondence to the weapons in the ODF files. The rest of the hardpoints (for critical hit areas) can really go any where on the model and I wouldn't really care.

The posted screenshots are the hardpoint maps for all the ships except the Super Wraith Hiveship, the ZPM Powered Hiveship, I'm still working on that map. The others are with their individual ship MS3D files and are actually ready to be zipped and sent to anyone who is up to the challenge to help me fix this hardpoint problem.

I know the maps are crude but I didn't have any program that could number each of the corresponding hardpoints, but besides including the weapon spots, I gave the total number of hardpoints in the ODF file, this includes the Critical Hit Hardpoints and this number can be found in the forum:

Spoiler: Total Hardpoints For Ships:

Given "hp01" - "hp10" (for example, the last "hp and # " could be more or less than 10 though.

Lastly, some of these ships could (and do) have more than one hardpoint color coded map but mostly they just show the color codes in different views for easier placement.

 

[Amateur]

I don't know where to get an older version of the software and I don't want to have to buy it again just to revert to an older version. I have this one activated and can at least make models, I haven't created something on my own yet because I have been practicing with the existing models but it is now time to do that I guess.

What was the weird notification that you got when you imported the models? I have never gotten any notifications with the models when importing them or even exporting them. Sometimes MS3D opens them without textures but I just thought that had something to do with the textures being located in a different folder (namely with the Aurora Class if they are using those textures). I believe that has to be the case for that problem because in the game the ships have their new textures.

I can for certain tell you that the ship that was moving backwards in my game is now fixed thanks to you Amateur, it isn't using its weapons still, but it is flying right. So for that one problem thank you very much.

Also you did say you couldn't help me hardpoint the ships because you ddin't know where I would want them placed. I have come up with a crude version of a hardpoint map for each ship by doing a screen capture of the ships in MS3D and then color coding the certain hardpoints that I want in correspondence to the weapons in the ODF files. The rest of the hardpoints (for critical hit areas) can really go any where on the model and I wouldn't really care.

The posted screenshots are the hardpoint maps for all the ships except the Super Wraith Hiveship, the ZPM Powered Hiveship, I'm still working on that map. The others are with their individual ship MS3D files and are actually ready to be zipped and sent to anyone who is up to the challenge to help me fix this hardpoint problem.

I know the maps are crude but I didn't have any program that could number each of the corresponding hardpoints, but besides including the weapon spots, I gave the total number of hardpoints in the ODF file, this includes the Critical Hit Hardpoints and this number can be found in the forum:

Spoiler: Total Hardpoints For Ships:

Given "hp01" - "hp10" (for example, the last "hp and # " could be more or less than 10 though.

Lastly, some of these ships could (and do) have more than one hardpoint color coded map but mostly they just show the color codes in different views for easier placement.

Firstly, the older versions are hosted here (downloads/tools); and to my knowledge the code/key you have now will work fine on it. At least, I've been using the same one for about three years and never had a problem.

Secondly, I've never seen it befoe - but it popped up saying unknown joint structure or something along those lines. That's what got me thinking, as it's the joints that are causing the issue.

As for hardpointing the ships; well, if push comes to shove I'll be happy to do that for you - but I think it'll help if we can get milkshape working, then you'll have a lot more freedom on what you can do with your game.

 

[swilson0907]

Firstly, the older versions are hosted here (downloads/tools); and to my knowledge the code/key you have now will work fine on it. At least, I've been using the same one for about three years and never had a problem.

Secondly, I've never seen it befoe - but it popped up saying unknown joint structure or something along those lines. That's what got me thinking, as it's the joints that are causing the issue.

As for hardpointing the ships; well, if push comes to shove I'll be happy to do that for you - but I think it'll help if we can get milkshape working, then you'll have a lot more freedom on what you can do with your game.

Ok, thank you.
The reason I choose the Beta version for the newest version of MS3D is because of Windows Vista. I hate finding compatibility errors and rather run programs that either have a patch to work on Windows Vista or Windows 7 (the patch 1.2.5 allowed Armada II to be installed). The only issues I have had with Vista are with programs for older versions and running in compatiblilty mode has seemed to cause problems to other programs so I decided the best thing is to do whats best to keep my computer running.

I am going to create a model of a ship (or station of my own design later) and see if it has any problems. If it doesn't then I'd guess my MS3D install is fine and there is a error with the meshes I'm using, possibly from a earlier version of MS3D.

It could be possible that my exporter and importer files for SODs are corrupt but I got them from a recommend download actually sent to me by another modder, I think it came from here actually. Not quite sure though.

 

[swilson0907]

Ok, its highly possible that the SOD importer are corrupt in my MS3D, but I have replaced them and the problem is still occuring.

I really have two choices here, revert to an old version of MS3D or totally give up on the program.

With programs prior to Vista always having the possibilty of errors with compatibility, I would stick with the version that works with Vista then, and right now, that is the one I have.

That leaves Option 2, giving up on MS3D, but I do want to get the models that I have completely game ready if I do that first and I would really need some help on that since my MS3D doesn't want to cooperate with me.

If I really want to create new models for the game, I will have to find another program that works with Vista that allows the creation of SOD files.

*****
Ok, here is the information on the model I choose to create for myself as a testing form. I followed the steps here given to me by k_merse. If there is anything that isn't listed here to do, I didn't end up doing it.

Spoiler: k_merse's Hardpointing steps I followed From my Help With MS3D Thread...

The joints are the hardpoints. It's a bit confusing that we call them different names, indeed especially, if you know that one joint is sometimes referred as "a node" Anyway, if you look at the joints, you'l find out that they are organised into a tree. The root is called h_root or h_scene_root and every joint attaches to it. The next level is the "must have" joints, these for a ship are:
h_damage
h_shields
h_life
h_sensors
h_crew
h_engines
h_target
h_lights
h_geometry
h_hardpoints
They all have to be attached to h_scene_root. Most of them you'll never use, but you have to have them all, or the model won't appear properly. As you can see, most of them are represent a subsystem of the ship. These define that the model does have those subsystems, which can be hit, taken damage etc.

The third level is technically not the third, but part of the second, but these HPs are not essential part of the model: They're the m_models-groups-name nodes. They has to be attached to h_scene_root ad they has to be named exactly as the groups in your model. If you have three groups, but you have nodes only for two, the third one won't appear on the screen ingame.

The fourth level is when the real fun begins, here comes the real thing! The fourth level nodes have to be attached to a second level node in order to operate properly. Let's see them!

Hardpoints: these nodes have to be attached to the h_hardpoints node. Their name has to start with a h_ tag, but then you'll write whatever name you want. Traditionally we're using the old Armada-style hpXX naming, but if you want, you can call them h_amy, h_christie, h_alex, h_****yourmother etc. Whatever you want. This also means that there is no known limit for the number of the hardpoints. You may have thousands of them, if you want...
In the ODF, when you refer to a hardpoint, you'll only use the hardpoints name, but not the h_ tag before them! (so in our example: "hp01" "hp02" "amy" "christie" "alex" "****yourmother")

Lights: SURPRISE! They has o be attached to the h_lights node! These are the small blinding lights on a starship. I never use them, I don't like when my ship looks like a Christmas tree. If I need those lights, I'll show them on the textures.

Streams: When a ship subsystem damages, you may want to represent it by a stream of venting gas/plasma etc. All you have to do for this is to attach the corresponding node. They're called e_streamsml/med/lrg and e_plasmasml/med/lrg depending on how big stream you want. I don't use these either.

Damages: If you have damaged textures and want them to appear on your ship when it took heavy damages (phaser burns, scars, lights off etc), you have a separated group or groups for them. You have to work with them, with the m_ tag, just like you did with the mesh group, except that they has to be attached to the h_damage node.

Some things like any thing with "m_ tag" I left out since he said they are for damaged textures and h_damage node" since I don't have these. The same goes with the e_steam tags.

I don't fully understand the m_tag because the required parts of my model show up in the game without them, so they are left out.

I created a station for the Ancients, in the end its design isn't exactly what I had planned in my mind, but I actually kind of like the design and feel it is unique. The station is called "Ancients Mystery Station" and its something created by the Inventor Janus who had the Secret Lab in Atlantis and created the Altoro Device (the device that destroyed Wraith ships entering Hyperspace and also had the side effect of causing StarGates to explode.

Ancients Mystery Station

#include "atlantis3.odf"

//**********************************************************************
//A2PHYSPROJV1.1 PARAMETERS
rangeScan = 2450.0f

//**********************************************************************
//MAIN DESIGN PARAMETERS

//Name of Ship class in Ship Display window & in edit mode & tooltip 
unitName = "Ancients Mystery Station"

//tooltips
tooltip = "Ancients Mystery Station"
verboseTooltip = "An unknown station designed by the Ancients. Its purpuse is still unknown and is speculated to have to do something with Janus and his experiments or for bringing the downfall of the Wraith." 

//Race which can build ship & starting race of ship
race = "ancients"

//Amount of time required to build ship
buildTime = 100.0

//Number of officers required to build this ship
officerCost = 20

//Number of crew required to build ship & Starting crew
crewCost = 750

//Number of maximum crew (only specified if different from crewCost)
maximumCrew = 6650

//Dilithium Cost to build
dilithiumCost = 2000

//Metal Cost to build
metalCost = 2000

//Max Shield Strength & Begining Shield Strength <9900 
maxHealth = 9999999

// Hitpoints
shieldGeneratorHitPoints = 17975
engine****Points = 0
weapon****Points = 17955
lifeSupportHitPoints = 17955
sensor****Points = 17955

//Rate at which shield recharges (points per second... we think) 
shieldRate = 1.5

//Maximum Value of Special Energy
maxSpecialEnergy = 99999

//Rate at which special energy recharges (points per second... we think)
specialEnergyRate = 9

//**********************************************************************
//SHIP NAMES
//Possible Craft Names
possibleCraftNames =
       "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown"
       "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown"
       "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown" "Unknown"

//**********************************************************************
// Starship Build Menu
buildItem0 = "aurora"
buildItem1 = "destiny"
buildItem2 = "puddlejumper"

// Building Location Hardpoints
buildHardpoint = "hp10"
repairHardpoint = "hp09"

// Research Pod Building Locations
podHardpoints = "hp23"
buildItem3 = "stargpeg"

//**********************************************************************
//ART PARAMETERS & WEAPON NAMES

// Ancient Drone Weapons
weapon1 = "drone"
weaponHardpoints1 = "hp01"

// Ancient Drone Weapons
weapon2 = "drone2"
weaponHardpoints2 = "hp02"

// Ancient Drone Weapons
weapon3 = "drone"
weaponHardpoints3 = "hp03"

// Ancient Drone Weapons
weapon4 = "drone2" 
weaponHardpoints4 = "hp04"

// Ancient Drone Weapons
weapon5 = "drone"
weaponHardpoints5 = "hp05"

// Ancient Drone Weapons
weapon6 = "drone2"
weaponHardpoints6 = "hp06"

// Ancient Drone Weapons
weapon7 = "drone"
weaponHardpoints7 = "hp07"

// Ancient Drone Weapons
weapon8 = "drone2"
weaponHardpoints8 = "hp08"

// Ancient Drone Weapons
weapon9 = "drone"
weaponHardpoints9 = "hp09"

// Ancient Drone Weapons
weapon10 = "drone2"
weaponHardpoints10 = "hp10"

// Self Destruct
weapon11 = "gselfdes"
weaponHardpoints11 = "hp02" "hp08" "hp10"     
            
// Ancient Deflective Shield
weapon12 = "ancientshield"
weaponHardpoints12 = "hp02" "hp06" "hp08" "hp10"

// Hardpoints to hit for various systems and other locations.
enginesTargetHardpoints = "hp06" "hp07" "hp08" "hp09" "hp10" 
lifeSupportTargetHardpoints = "hp06" "hp07" "hp08" "hp09" "hp10" 
weaponsTargetHardpoints = "hp06" "hp07" "hp08" "hp09" "hp10"  
shieldGeneratorTargetHardpoints = "hp05" "hp06" "hp07" "hp08" "hp09" "hp10"
sensorsTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03"  "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07" "hp08" "hp09" "hp10" 
hullTargetHardpoints = "hp01" "hp02" "hp03"  "hp04" "hp05" "hp06" "hp07" "hp08" "hp09" "hp10"
criticalTargetHardpoints = "hp07" "hp09" "hp10"

//**********************************************************************
//AI system parameters
//These parameters influence how the AI evaluates and compares craft.
//An abstract number that represents how much extra strength must be 
//used to attack this craft due to its weapons.
// (0.0=no weapons, 0.5 = average weapons, 1.0=many good weapons)
attackPower = 0.75f

//The normalized intrinsic value of a target.  High value craft make good 
//attack targets. (0.0=lowest value, 1.0=highest value)
intrinsicValue = 0.30f

//**********************************************************************
//MESSAGE & SOUND PARAMETERS
//**********************************************************************
eventSelect = "StarbaseSelect"
eventAcknowledge = "StarbaseAcknowledge"
eventAttack = "StarbaseAttack"
eventDecommission = "StarbaseDecommission"

//**********************************************************************
//CREW STATUS MULTIPLIERS
//The multiplier for the delay between shots for weapons while in yellow status
weaponYellow = 1.0f

//The multiplier for the delay between shots for weapons while in red status
weaponRed = 2.0f

//**********************************************************************
// Tara Additions For Context Sensitive Menus
classLabel = "starbase"
Facility = 1
alwaysRecomputeRallyPoint = 1
builder_ship = 1
alert = 1
combat = 1
can_repair = 1
transporter = 1
SHOW_MOVEMENT_AUTONOMY = 1
SHOW_SW_AUTONOMY = 1

//**********************************************************************
ScaleSOD = 1.2

Spoiler: Ancients Mystery Station Read Me

Introduction:
Hello, this is my first model creation - here you will find a station titled Ancients Mystery Station.
The textures for this model are Ancient, as in the Ancient Aurora Class Warship and some from Atlantis, you can find these two ships at Armada II files, I will not be providing you the textures for these models because they aren't mine to release. (Note: BC Atlantis Textures might be used) - If you are testing this and want the included weapons, textures, and any other missing files, please PM or e-mail me and request them.

This station is being created for testing purpuses only, you don't have to keep them if you don't want to. You can also edit and re-release the MS3D files, just be sure to give me credit for their original creations.

Included in this file:
The station odf file
The station SOD file
The MS3D File that I created
Screen Shots of the model in progress
This Read Me File

Legal:
This mod is not supported or authorized by Activison or Maddoc, the original creators of Star Trek Armada II. I am not responsibel for any damges that this may cause to your game or to your computer. You install this at your own risk. With that said, there shouldn't be any problems except fo the known issue with this station, see my Ingame Testing section below:

Contact:
I can be reached at MSFC at swilson0907 if there are any questions or comments. You can also e-mail me at stevewilson2904@aol.com


*****************
Here are the results for my ingame testing of this station:

1) The model appears just fine in the game, at least the way it looks in 3D in MS3D, see the accompanying screenshots. The original Model doesn't look like how I really wanted it to be, but it does serve the purose that it was created for.

2) Like all my other models that I downloaded that I needed to finish and when changing the textures for a ship or station, this same problem happened. - As before, this stations weapons do not work in game, except for its Ancients Shield special weapon and also Self Destruct. Stock and traditional Ancient Weapons also don't work, right now, the accompanying ODF for the Station has Ancients weapons incorporated.

3) Given that this is my first model and a creation of mine, I would like it to work in game as well. If someone can get it to work, there are only 10 hardpoints for this station.

I would like it if the weapons are on the towers and on the underneath tower as well. You can really place "hp01" - "hp10" where you want on the model when fixing it for me because I'm not picking where the weapons fire from this station because I think its going to be a non-buildable Map Unit that possibly works as an Early Warning Satellite that is used to destroy the Wraith. Thus there is one more weapon that will be incorporated onto the stations's arsenal, so please place an "hp11" on one of the outer squares forming the station, any place you feel is right for a beam weapon to fire from. Thank you for all your contiuned help and I greatly appreciate it.

Now I will include Screen Shots from the Process of creating this model and also Screen Shots of it in the game. Note, this station also does use its regular weapons, tested with stock weapons and also Ancient weapons. It does use the Ancients Shield, Self Destruct and does build but away from the station. Besides the screenshots, I am also including a download of the .ZIP of my model and the ingame files, minus textures and weapons.

 

[SciFiFan]

I am using MS3D 1.8.4 on a Vista 64 bit system with no problems. Have you aimed your weapon hardpoints? If you just put a hardpoint, it will by default "aim" at the parent node. If your weapon has a defined firing arc, your weapon may not be aiming on the enemy.

Try highlighting one of your weapon hardpoints. Then place another hardpoint on the screen in the direction you want your weapon to fire. Save the file, delete the extra hp then export.