Classification of Starships

[F-Bobby]

This is a debate that was started in one of the RPG threads. I figured it deserved its own. The initial dispute was about how to Classify the Excelsior class. I belive it shoudl be classified as a Medium or possibly a Heavy cruiser. Majestic and others feel it should be classified as a light cruiser. I wanna see what other people think on the subject.

SO heres my breakdown of classifications of classs of federation ships

SCOUT/SCIENCE
Oberth
Nova
DESTROYER
Defiant
Centaur
LIGHT CRUISER
Sabre
Miranda
Soyuz
Norway
MEDIUM CRUISER
Excelsior
Intrepid
Steamrunner
Yeager (the kitbash of Voyager and the Maquis ship seen in the background of DS9 occasionally)
HEAVY CRUISER
New Orleans (also classified as a Frigate)
Excelsior (Refit [think the Lakota])
Akira
Nebula
Ambassador
BATTLE CRUISER
Galaxy
Sovereign
Prometheus

 

[Borg_Queen]

I totally agree with that classification of ships.

 

[Knight]

i really hate how the defiant gets classified in everything as a destroyer. they even said in the first episode it was in on deep space nine it was designed specifically as a borg battling battleship...

I tend to think of the Excelsior as a heavy cruiser - it was designed primarily as a battleship in its day, as the design is now 80 years old in the chronology, its been reclassified, but still capable of takin an absolute beating.

 

[Majestic]

Its really all personal preference. I honestly believe the Excelsior is a Light Cruiser, the Miranda as a destroyer or heavy frigate, Norway as a destroyer, Akira as a heavy cruiser, Ambassador as a medium cruiser, sabre as a frigate or destroyer, Defiant as a light to medium cruiser, Intrepid as a light cruiser, Nebula, Galaxy, Sovereign as a battleship etc.

But in the end it's all personal; preference. I just can't see a 100 year old design being a medium or heavy cruiser, they still make up the backbone of the fleet but compared to the Akira the Excelsior is obviously a light cruiser in my opinion.

Now as a Admin, I don't want to see any framing in here, everyone has their opinion and are entitled to it.

 

[Paulhanselluk]

I was always of the mind that the gaxlay class (and bigger) was a Dreadnought. and that the defiant even with its size fell under the catagory Destroyer, I would even go as far to say that the Excelisor class is a frigate, while the older ships (ie miranda) are cruisers ......

 

[F-Bobby]

well see i think the problem is is that people have different ideas of what these classifications are. What I consider a Frigate, other people might consider a medium cruiser. thats why everyone can have arguements for where they think a ship should be.

 

[Steven Kodaly]

F-Bobby, you've got a point - nobody really knows what a ship classification consists of. So, how about we cook up a classification system for our use? Perhaps we should consider vessels by their mass or displacement - or instead by their length.

Regardless, let's at least settle on a list of names of ship categorizations. Your list, F-Bobby, is interesting, as I was unaware that there was such thing as a "medium cruiser." As I understand it, the terms "light cruiser" and "heavy cruiser" come from the associated acronyms, "CL" and "CA" respectively. CL is "Cruiser, Light," whereas CA is "Cruiser, Armored." The armored cruiser is, obviously, the "heavy" cruiser. So, where does "medium cruiser" come from?

Please bear in mind that my list is shamelessly cribbed from David Weber's Honor Harrington novels:

Frigate
Destroyer
Light Cruiser
Heavy Cruiser
Battle Cruiser (Possibly one word)
Battleship
Dreadnaught (Alternate spelling)
Superdreadnaught (Alternate spelling)

Now, Weber classifies his warships generally by weight (or is that displacement?) - thus, vessels in a certain weight range are considered light cruisers, whereas vessels in the next weight range are considered heavy cruisers, regardless of a ship's mission. If we choose to adopt a system such as this, who can suggest weight ranges for our ship classifications?

 

[Knight]

does it work that way when going by mass though?
For example, in Andromeda, the ship is classed as a battleship (though some episodes refer to it as a heavy cruiser) yet uses a GFG lens to lower its mass for faster speeds/slipstream.

its still a battleship, but the weight isnt constantly that of a battleship is what im getting at...

 

[F-Bobby]

I belive the way that the classify them is Not just by mass, but also by manuverability and firepower.

Dreadnaughts are ususally though of as slower moving heavily armored ships
Frigates are ususally thought of as Fast moving lighty armored but heavily armed ships
Cruisers are done in the same way, a light cruiser will ususally be more manuverable but it also more lighty armed then a heavy cruiser.
its all subjective. that why it is soo hard to classify.

I also think that the Defiant being labled as a destroyer is a good choice as it is very small and quick and very heavily armed and meant for one thing. fighting.

 

[Knight]

I belive the way that the classify them is Not just by mass, but also by manuverability and firepower.

Dreadnaughts are ususally though of as slower moving heavily armored ships
Frigates are ususally thought of as Fast moving lighty armored but heavily armed ships
Cruisers are done in the same way, a light cruiser will ususally be more manuverable but it also more lighty armed then a heavy cruiser.
its all subjective. that why it is soo hard to classify.

I also think that the Defiant being labled as a destroyer is a good choice as it is very small and quick and very heavily armed and meant for one thing. fighting.

thatd work... i tend to class battleships as anything with a lot of firepower.

for me, the defiant escapes definition... yes, its small, fast and maneuverable, which wud make it a destroyer, but its also very heavily armed for its size - and in its first appearance, as i said earlier, was labelled as a battleship by Sisko

 

[F-Bobby]

actually He called it a Warship. Which is just a term for pretty much any ship that has guns on it lol. Actually to be perfectly honest he said it was Officially classified as an Escort, unofficially was a warship.

and as far as i can see there are no real Starfleet ships that can be classified as a dreadnaught. Maybe if the Excalibur class was canon that could get classified as one, but then again that would more likely be classified as a battleship.

 

[Knight]

actually He called it a Warship. Which is just a term for pretty much any ship that has guns on it lol. Actually to be perfectly honest he said it was Officially classified as an Escort, unofficially was a warship.

lol. oops. my bad.

in my defence, its been a long time since i saw that episode. or any ds9 for that matter

 

[F-Bobby]

lol. oops. my bad.

in my defence, its been a long time since i saw that episode. or any ds9 for that matter

well why not?! lol I need to get seasons 3, 4, and 7. there are those few choice episodes i really wanna see.

 

[Knight]

well why not?! lol I need to get seasons 3, 4, and 7. there are those few choice episodes i really wanna see.

because my tv reception is really bad so i cant always get the channels showing reruns, and i didnt fancy shelling out hordes of money for the DVD's lol?

 

[F-Bobby]

because my tv reception is really bad so i cant always get the channels showing reruns, and i didnt fancy shelling out hordes of money for the DVD's lol?

Ever heard of Bit Torrent? Ya can download the WHOLE series.. its only 50 Gigis of space....

 

[Knight]

Ever heard of Bit Torrent? Ya can download the WHOLE series.. its only 50 Gigis of space....

2Mb line 3 miles from the exchange that isnt always that reliable because its in semi constant use playin halo 3 from 2 xboxs - mine and my brothers lol.

 

[Dontai]

Excelsior

TMP - Battle ship

TNG era - Heavy cruiser

DS9 - light cruiser

future - useless

 

[Majestic]

Excelsior

TMP - Battle ship

TNG era - Heavy cruiser

DS9 - light cruiser

future - useless

I think that sums it up pretty well according to my own personal views.

Also on the issue of medium cruiser, I really don't think it exists, was just adopted for video games like Armada, I only used it in YY for the Artillery ships as I don't like calling them Artillery cruisers.

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

Excelsior

TMP - Battle ship

TNG era - Heavy cruiser

DS9 - light cruiser

future - useless

I agree with that. Although maybe in the future it is nothing more than a Frigate or cargo ship...maybe even a shuttle or personal vessel for an admiral. Then again in the future it could be a science vessel.

 

[Lord_Trekie]

I heard there's a collectors edition of all the TNG DVD's being released for approx $440... Check out Star Trek . com for more, I think they've got a little header on the main page about it...

As someone who's played the Starfleet Command games way too much, I think of the Excelsior as a Battlecruiser 90% of the time, a Heavy Cruiser the other 10% of the time. It out masses an Intrepid, and with 24th century tech I'm sure it could take on an Intrepid and probably win... (not an invitation to re-open any version of 'Voyager is the best Fed ship ever because of the torpedoes and armor...)

 

[Paulhanselluk]

You may think iam daft, but why dont you just make up your classification list ?

 

[Steven Kodaly]

You may think iam daft, but why dont you just make up your classification list ?

Sounds like a plan.

So, I see terms such as "Science Ship" being thrown about; these sound suspiciously like mission classification, as opposed to hull type. How about we make a list of missions:

Science
Exploratory
War
Freight/Transport

Note: many vessels have an overlap in mission suitability; for instance, the Galaxy class starship is considered by some to be an 'Explorer,' but it is by no means considered to be a lightweight in ship-to-ship combat, allowing it to be classified as a 'Warship.' Further, 'Science' and 'Exploratory' may or may not be effectively synonymous mission designations.

Now, warships ('War' mission) would allow for additional specification:
Short range
Long range
Indirect fire (Space-borne artillery)
Carrier
Assault (Combat transport, a la Iwo Jima class)

I'm sure that there are more missions and sub-missions for vessels in Star Trek. Would someone care to add to the list? We can always remove something if it's unsuitable.

Knight, to address your question, do vessels in Star Trek have a tendency to alter their mass? However, if you would prefer, let us assume that mass or displacement of vessels is measured when the vessel is empty and at rest relative to the planet Earth.

Now, are there any suggestions for mass and/or displacement measurements to use in breaking ships down by hull type (Light cruiser, heavy cruiser, battleship, etc.) or should I pull some numbers out of the air and see where vessels fall?

 

[Majestic]

Common hull types are:

Freighter
Frigate
Corvette
Cutter
Destroyer
Cruiser (Light and Heavy)
Battlecruiser
Dreadnaught
Battleship

There are a few more but they are the main ones.

 

[Syf]

This would be a great thread to use to develope a specific Class list that is generally excepted amoung those it matters to.

People often forget classes like Juggernaut, corvette, to mention a few used in history. Also, it can open the door to a bigger class list.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

actually He called it a Warship. Which is just a term for pretty much any ship that has guns on it lol. Actually to be perfectly honest he said it was Officially classified as an Escort, unofficially was a warship.

and as far as i can see there are no real Starfleet ships that can be classified as a dreadnaught. Maybe if the Excalibur class was canon that could get classified as one, but then again that would more likely be classified as a battleship.

IMHO, the Galaxy-X can be classified as a Federation dreadnaught if you only use on-screen stuff. Though, there was the TOS/TMP (would have to check which) Dreadnaught class and the TOS era Federation class (though, according to the descriptions, both may be, in fact, the same class, Federation), both were in various books and, according to my research, the Entente mentioned in dialouge in the first ST movie was supposed to be Federation class.

As for ship classification, I use this list, in no particular order:

Fighter
Attack Fighter
Assault Fighter
Light Fighter
Medium Fighter
Heavy Fighter
Recon Fighter
Stealth Fighter
Fighter-Bomber
Stealth Bomber
Bomber
Attack Bomber
Assault Bomber
Light Bomber
Medium Bomber
Heavy Bomber
Recon Bomber
Shuttlepod
Shuttle
Combat Shuttle
Runabout
Light Scout
Medium Scout
Heavy Scout
Scout
Interceptor
Light Cruiser
Medium Cruiser
Heavy Cruiser
Attack Cruiser
Assault Cruiser
Cruiser
Long-Range Tactical Cruiser
Tactical Cruiser
Command Cruiser
Battlecruiser
Warcruiser
Dreadnaught
Tactical Dreadnaugt
Fast Dreadnaught
Light Dreadnaught
Medium Dreadnaught
Heavy Dreadnaught
Command Dreadnaught
Juggernaut
Tactical Juggernaut
Fast Juggernaut
Light Juggernaut
Medium Juggernaut
Heavy Juggernaut
Command Juggernaut
Battleship
Warship
Freighter
Transport
Escape Pod
Galactic Explorer
Explorer
Destroyer
Monitor
Escort
Frigate
Blockade Runner
Cargo Drone
Courier
Raider
Science Vessel
Surveyor
Supply Ship
Tanker
Tug
Corsair
Carrier
Light Carrier
Medium Carrier
Heavy Carrier
Command Carrier
Battle Carrier
War Carrier
Escort Carrier
Tactical Carrier
Star Carrier
Hospital Ship


Note: This isn't the full list. I just touched on a few big labels in the above.

 

[Majestic]

Quite a list, I always have a pretty narrow list myself, I rarely use heavy destroyer or all the scout designations. I mainly use the following.

Fighter
Bomber
Shuttle
Surveyor
Courier
Corvette
Frigate
Monitor
Cutter
Gunship
Destroyer
Escort
Light Cruiser
Heavy Cruiser
Carrier
Battlecruiser
Dreadnaught
Battleship
Juggernaut (Rarely)

Then the various freighters, transports, tenders, construction rigs etc

I rarely use anything more that was I just posted above as pretty much any ship can be categorised into one of those spots.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

I actually want cross-canon for my list as, IMHO, only basing a list off of a single canon, non-canon, and/or fanon would make it incomplete.

Oh, and I forgot to put these ones in my list:

Worldship
Gunship
Gunboat
Plant Killer
Star Killer
Mobile Battlestation
Mobile Warstation

That's all I've got for now.

 

[Lord_Trekie]

LOL, your list has more than mine would if I had a phsyical list Majestic.

I think mine goes something like (not counting non-combat vessels):

Shuttle
Fighter
Runabout
Frigate
Destroyer
Escort
Light Cruiser
Heavy Cruiser
Battle Cruiser
Battleship

 

[Jasoneagle]

aside from just naming them hows about we use modern day military classification to class the ship?

if one looks at the reality of it all the Navies as well as the Air Forces of the World have and use the same classing system for their ships.

you have (just to name a few)

carrier - Self explanatory

battleship - a large, heavily armored warship with a main battery consisting of the largest calibre of guns. Battleships are larger, better armed, and better armored than cruisers and destroyers.

battlecruiser - large warship developed as the successor to the armoured cruisers

cruiser - large type of warship intended for individual raiding and protection missions

destroyer - fast and maneuverable yet long-endurance warship intended to escort larger vessels in a fleet, convoy or battle group and defend them against smaller, short-range but powerful attackers

frigate - light armament, built for speed and maneuverability

Combat Logistics (Support ships)

and each ship class can further be broken down into more specific types.

 

[Wheller]

i feel that i must comment on this. in Cannon Trek the federation uses the General Hull types:

Escort (Defiant)
Frigate (New Orleans)
Light Cruiser (Miranda Class)
Heavy Cruiser (Constitution Class, Akira Class, Ambassador Class)
Explorer (Galaxy, Sovereign, Nebula and Excelsior [Original production],)

They tend to stick away from the Classifications like Destroyer, Battleship and Dreadnought. officially, anyway,

by now i think the Excelsior could be considered a Heavy Cruiser,