Armada 2 and Fleet Operations

[Adm_Z]

nevah saw it, but it is funny non the less.

 

[CABAL]

What's stopping me, personally, from using FO as a modding base is that, for one, it is much larger than stock A2 and I have very limited HDD space. Second is that there is so much that I would have to remove before I could even begin to make the game the way I want it that it's hard to get motivated into using it when I already have so much done on an older platform.

If the FO team were to release a blank or mostly empty version of Fleet Ops with full support for the old A2 code, then I would seriously consider it. Actually, since it's come up a couple times and there is now a thread about it I think I'll ask the dev team though their forums if they would mind releasing a mostly empty version of Fleet Ops. It would be a great replacement for the PP since they would just have to cut down the existing mod rather than working on another project at the same time.

Also, Dom, TSK, can't we all just get along?

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

Also, Dom, TSK, can't we all just get along?

If you have to ask me that, then you already have already made up your mind.

 

[Lord_Trekie]

If you have to ask me that, then you already have already made up your mind.

Wow Dominus, that's the first time Cabal has said anything in this thread. Lighten up. And take his advice.

 

[Majestic]

In this instance I am talking as a staff member not a member of this site.

Dominus_Noctis, from this staff members perspective of the situation it seems like you are encouraging a clash between members whom prefer FO to members whom prefer regular Armada 2.

Both Cabal and TSK have asked. The statement "Let's agree to disagree" was in fact's TSK's attempt to make peace with you and move on. As was Cabal's "Also, Dom, TSK, can't we all just get along?" whom obviously not wanting to see this continue.

I would strongly suggest you let this entire debate go. Your views are clear as glass to all of us. People have their preferences and no matter what you said in regards to A2 or FO will change their minds. I mentioned at the beginning of this topic that this sort of behaviour is a no go, yet you seem to be continuing it even after a member of staff has asked you, which you yourself argued the point with.

Hellkite has asked you to stop and now I am asking. I recommend you re-read our code of conduct.

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

In any case, CABAL has popped the question on the FO forums, and I mirrored that by asking DOCa, so we'll see what comes out of it.

Out of the myriad of unanswered comments I had, I'm still wondering from those who haven't yet shared what the consensus on this was:

does the reluctance to mod using FO come from the inclusion of the game, or from the lack of 'backwards compatibility'?

EDIT: removed this as just posted during Majestic's comment

It was an unnecessary comment in a thread that is getting increasingly away from its original purpose. I suppose it is fine to bash someone who is apparently going against the flow here and then look the other way. Either way, now I'm sure I've all garnered quite the fan club, and I wouldn't touch me with a 10 foot pole either

 

[Majestic]

EDIT: removed this as just posted during Majestic's comment

It was an unnecessary comment in a thread that is getting increasingly away from its original purpose. I suppose it is fine to bash someone who is apparently going against the flow here and then look the other way. Either way, now I'm sure I've all garnered quite the fan club, and I wouldn't touch me with a 10 foot pole either

You assume we are all against FO here, when if fact we are not. We all have our own preferences when it comes to A2 and FO. Whatever you may think we do not victimise a member for a certain view or opinion. We will however enforce the rules that have worked so well for the five years this site has been in operation.

Now this is the last I want to hear of this, I have let it go on long enough (even though I was asleep for the most part of it).

Back to the topic.

does the reluctance to mod using FO come from the inclusion of the game, or from the lack of 'backwards compatibility'?

To answer your question, I don't mod FO for a variety of reason most notably the lag I experience whether it's from the explosions and sprites or the models I am not sure.

I have spent over 10 years modding A2, starting off in 2000/2001 on AFC. I still remember when the site was restarted in early 2001 and I had to re-register. So like TSK I have a long history with the game which with all it's draw backs I still enjoy.

FO I feel it too complicated to play and to mod I wouldn't know where to begin. I suppose if there was a blank slate with documentation as Adm_Z has suggested I might consider modding it, however my past experience with asking about COE on the FlOps site has made me hesitant as members over there are more interested in a Cardassian side to work in with the FO game rather than something new like a new mod using the engine and base of FO.

 

[ISS_Enterprise_D]

I guess I should put my two cents in here somewhere...anybody got change?

I used to mod FO just as much as I did with my personal A2 install, and that's quite a lot, believe me. Especially during the waiting period for 3.0.8. (now 3.1.0) to come out. There were lots of mods posted up on the FO site, which I rapidly integrated. Once 3.1.0+ came out though, I began to stay away from modding heavily because of a few reasons:

1. Yes, there is boatloads of work to work in your own ships and stuff
2. I quite like the game and ship models as they are now, cept a few which do need updating, and I feel that adding in my own ships sort of....taints the beauty in a sense
3. FO is heavily centered around balancing. Me being me, I'd probably have a race of godships

But yeah, A2 and FO both have their pros, and both have their cons. I'd love to see a few more coding aspects of FO added into A2. It would probably do away with quite a bit of hassle, and if people don't like the changes, then they simply don't have to use them. I do like the sound of that blank copy, probably would make modding it as easy as chewing gum.

Wait a minute....my teeth get stuck when I chew gum....:zipped

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

I think you might find that a blank slate would make things more complex, not less, as you will lose all the examples. What may I ask seems so complex for you? You never responded to any of my other queries directed at you for such, but I'm still more than glad to answer.

As I stated before, you can report those lag issues and they will be looked at and (hopefully) fixed

I'm not sure what COE stands for I'm afraid (I assume Clash of Empires - but not positive). In regard to the Cardassian mod information you posted, I think I can explain why that might not have garnered much attention. First, the links you posted all directed back here at first, and probably many people are quite lazy (after all, take how many people looked at the guide after the link was posted - that would be 2, though the number of posters referencing it was 6 I believe). Accessibility is key to promoting any mod, especially when posting to people who are accustomed with such. Unfortunately, before you posted the second set of pictures, it had already gotten off track. The last post before you pulled the plug 5 months later, Zaxxon mentioned potentially using RCIX's and Blade's work to ease your load. If people aren't getting some sort of update, they forget about the mod, lose interest - etc. Unfortunately one can't build a loyal fan base if nobody gets news, hears reports etc.

You wondered why people started talking about FO instead of your mod, and I believe that was because of this paragraph in your first post:

"The reason I am making this post is to ask, would people like to see a full Cardassian side in Fleet Operations? Plus how hard will it be to place a new race (with two avatars) into Fleet Operations. This has been something I have debated for a long time now. I am a veteran of modding stock A1 & A2 (10 years now) but I have never touched Fleet Operations. "

For someone who is reading this (perhaps cursorily), you might imagine it could be quite misleading. For instance, take a look at TUN's first thread about Sigma (or threads), and that might give some hints on how to capture a good set of readers.

Nonetheless, due to the bulk of posting and forum goers per day (hundreds), you have to be sure to keep the thread on track more rigorously. A lot of the newer posters on FO definitely send things off track, especially when it is about something as exciting as say... Cardassians (the most requested item since... a loooong time).

However, if you recall, many of us did ask you to continue your work, but you seemed reluctant. There are several other modders who work on large projects (Blade, TUN, Zaxxon for instance) and they are in much the same boat. They do not gain a humongous active interest from the forum - but they still work to release and likewise are appreciated - even if it is behind the scenes. For instance, TUN right now is trying to find more players for his mod, but it is difficult to find people willing to actively play. Zaxxon has gone many many months now with nary an official FO release - but there is still interest if you talk to people. Likewise, I'm sure people still remember your announcement about the Cardies (I know I do - though now it is more filled with regret). For every one person who expresses their interest via a post, there are many many others who lurk and merely watch.

 

[ISS_Enterprise_D]

I think you might find that a blank slate would make things more complex, not less, as you will lose all the examples. What may I ask seems so complex for you? You never responded to any of my other queries directed at you for such, but I'm still more than glad to answer.

What do I find more complex? Lemme see...

Well for one, when 3.1.0. came out, a lot of new coding was introduced into the basic adding of starships, meaning the weapon icons on the images. I know that they aren't a required thing to have, I know that some of the misc objects for some races don't have anything, but it's there for a reason: to be used.

Secondly, sprites. I have NEVER, EVER (emphasis, not yelling ) been able to get an A2 weapon sprite working in FO. It's an instantaneous crash each time. It carried over from my old computer to my new. I know that some people have gotten to do it, and I've even followef instructions to the letter, but it never works.

A lesser effect applies vice-versa. I try to import FO sprite into my A2, and they show up, but they're locked into their first frame for some reason. So instead of a graceful, fluctuating beam, I get a blocky, stick-like block fired at ships.

When I take a look back at this, I think it's more that I'm daunted by attempting an undertaking of modding this incredible mod. I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to getting things done my way, and there tends to be quite a bit of work set out for me, and me being me, I'm never up to serious hard work.

 

[Adm_Z]

Its true that it got alot harder to mod FO recently. but the truth is, like ISS said, you don't have to use those features. I personally think a blank slate would be good because when you make your mods, you always have all these extra textures and odf's that you don't need. Like Cabal said, it would significantly cut down on HDD space aswell.


Oh, yeah, and we should warn anybody around here not to mention a mod about cardies on the FO forums. Nerely every new member asks for Cardies in their first post. They, as dom said, are the single most requested item since they were taken out. Some things, the Devs don't budge on, and am kinda happy about it. Personally I dislike the cardies. Though in my other mods have them, they just aren't my favorite race.


But yeah, we are talking to the Devs back at the fo forums, so we will soon have an answer about my mod suggestion.


Edit: Oh and If you need help with sprites ISS, I have devoted much time to understanding them, so if you need help, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Dan1025]

I don't spend a lot of time on the FO forum so I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but if anyone wants to they can always add my Cardie stuff to FO and release it, that'd get you a full race right there.

 

[Lord_Trekie]

I don't spend a lot of time on the FO forum so I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but if anyone wants to they can always add my Cardie stuff to FO and release it, that'd get you a full race right there.

I'm surprised someone hasn't done that yet honestly.

 

[Dan1025]

I'm surprised someone hasn't done that yet honestly.

Well no ones contacted me about it. A fair few of my mods have been released for FO by various people (Romulan Shadow Class, Federation Incursion Class e.t.c) but no requests for the Cardies, odd really since everyone seems to want Cardassians in FO lol.

Maybe they'd just rather wait for the Devs to make their own version

 

[Adm_Z]

To be honest, the reason is that people want a FO style Cardie race. This doesn't mean that they don't like your mod(I certainly do) but it means that they want 6 ranks for the ships, 2 avatars, specials, tooltips, sprites, engine glows, ect. This is more work than it sounds like. The point of my mod I suggested is so those who don't like those features wouldn't have to deal with all those extra odf's and such.

If I were to make a cardie mod for FO I would certainly use your mod first though. I really like the way your models look.


I think the biggest reason is that there have been several mods already that failed. This deters future modders from even trying to complete the daunting task. I also think there was a set of cardie models made specifically for FO, but I am not sure. It is alot of work to make a mod match up to something already in FO. Its easy to use their features, and pick and choose what you want to use, but to make a race that looks like it belongs in FO takes forever. Apoclaydon has been working on his mod for almost 2 years now if you count the cardi mod he started before his current one, and that was one of the ones that failed.


And the people who ask, aren't looking for a mod...They are looking for something on par with what the devs do. They want something perfectly balanced, and something you can play online. They don't really want something that is made by somebody outside of the FO team.

So I guess you are right. They are really just waiting for the devs to do what they already said they won't.

 

[Dan1025]

Yeah I thought that might be the reason. I'm not taking it personally or anything mate so don't worry about it, but like I said if anyone wants to try and get my Cardie stuff into FO they're welcome to it.

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

That would be most excellent Dan - I'll let Blade/Apoc know to see if he's interested . I bet others would also be very definitely gracious for that material

In FO, since Zeich is in charge of the Cardies, and since he has quite a number of models as well as a large tech tree planned out... well, they seem to be shaping up to be a bit less than the size of one of the factions currently. Perhaps a few ships and researches less, but still quite large (before the redoes of course, since those will bring a lot more units, structures, and researches to each of the current factions). So in some way or another forum goers will get something of what they are hoping to see

EDIT: apparently I've been informed that Apoc is already using them. Woops

 

[CABAL]

It looks like Optec and Doca have shot down the bare-bones Fleet Ops idea.

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

Yup. If only ~5 people are interested in it, it's a large amount of work to expect. There will be others to pick up the slack I'm sure though if it's still wanted

 

[Lord_Trekie]

They shot it down in terms of the dev team doing it? Or in terms of anyone doing it?

 

[Adm_Z]

So far, the devs doing it. We are still awaiting an answer about whether or not it is allowed at all.

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

I'm fairly confident they would allow that, since the only reason they gave was time. Just supposition though

 

[Dominus_Noctis]

I'm not certain what the policy on double-posting is (and I don't know if editing a post causes that topic to be brought back up in the news feed), but I figured this was worth its own post:

Majestic mentioned on the FO forums that he'd be interested in modding on that engine if everything FO was removed and replaced with A2 files, ships, etc.

Since the discontinuing of Blade's A2-FO crossover mod a few patches ago due to any interest and the difficulty, there have been no requests or any sort of interest in that sort of thing. Does anybody have any serious interest in him completing his work after 3.1.4 to re-add all A2 features (with the exception of missions and A2 GUIs)? Any comments would be appreciated

 

[Adm_Z]

just fyi, it did exactly what y'all were wanting. It made available a base that when played/modded, was just like stock a2, but you could use most of the new code if you wanted.

 

[Majestic]

I'm not certain what the policy on double-posting is (and I don't know if editing a post causes that topic to be brought back up in the news feed), but I figured this was worth its own post:

Double posting on MSFC refers to a post that is posted after the first while the edit ability is still available for the first post. Which is usually within the first 15-30 minutes after the post was made.

Any post after that isn't considered a double post. We also have no issues with a member reviving a thread.

Majestic mentioned on the FO forums that he'd be interested in modding on that engine if everything FO was removed and replaced with A2 files, ships, etc.

Since the discontinuing of Blade's A2-FO crossover mod a few patches ago due to any interest and the difficulty, there have been no requests or any sort of interest in that sort of thing. Does anybody have any serious interest in him completing his work after 3.1.4 to re-add all A2 features (with the exception of missions and A2 GUIs)? Any comments would be appreciated

I would, however I wouldn't utilise it, till after I released YY on the A2 Stock platform. So it would be sometime.