Wouldn't it have been good if...

[Aerilon]

During the Battle of Chintoka (DS9), or maybe another huge fight between the Dominion & Federation Alliance, a Transwarp Conduit suddenly opened up, and a Cube, followed by two Spheres shot through.

What do you guys and girls think would happen with the War? Obviously they'd make a pact to fight off the Borg, but what then? Would they realise that there are bigger threats and stop fighting, or would they simply fight the Borg, and then again each other?

Just curious anyway... Don't suppose the Dominion would have too much trouble with the Borg. Use a few Bugs and set them on Suicide Mode, and you'd be done with it.

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

I think the threat with that would be the founders. You would only need one borg drone to assimilate the great link. Could you imagine how dangerous the borg would be then? If the Great link was assimilated. 99% of the dominion would line up for assimilation. The founders are gods to thier people after all.

 

[Lord_Trekie]

I think the 'Allies' would have turned their attention to the Borg, while the Dominion wouldn't have batted an eyelash. They'd take them both on at once and probably not care for the result, after all 'Victory is Life'...

 

[Tholian_Storm]

During the Battle of Chintoka (DS9), or maybe another huge fight between the Dominion & Federation Alliance, a Transwarp Conduit suddenly opened up, and a Cube, followed by two Spheres shot through.

What do you guys and girls think would happen with the War? Obviously they'd make a pact to fight off the Borg, but what then? Would they realise that there are bigger threats and stop fighting, or would they simply fight the Borg, and then again each other?

Just curious anyway... Don't suppose the Dominion would have too much trouble with the Borg. Use a few Bugs and set them on Suicide Mode, and you'd be done with it.

It would depend on which Borg they used.

A) The Super Civilization Destroying Borg from TNG? (I'd say the outcome would be Armageddon)

OR

B) The Cyber-Wusses from VOY? ("Piece of cake , Cap'n Sisko. Want your raktajino now , or in five minutes once we mop up these Borg?" "I believe I'll have it now , Quark. After all...it IS the Borg...")

I think the threat with that would be the founders. You would only need one borg drone to assimilate the great link. Could you imagine how dangerous the borg would be then? If the Great link was assimilated. 99% of the dominion would line up for assimilation. The founders are gods to thier people after all.

Good point on that one. The Vorta and the Jem'Hadar would assuredly offer themselves upon a platter. "This is Weyoun of Three. Resistance is futile , Founder. Please , assimilate me and make me a part of you!!" Borg Drone 32 of 58: "Your civilization would pull us away from Perfection. You will NOT be assimilated. Opening Transwarp Conduit so that we may go get killed by Voyager in a five minute battle."

Don't get me wrong. I LOVED the Borg in TNG , but they have become sort of....weak , for lack of better term. But that's a tale for another time.

 

[Lord_Trekie]

It would depend on which Borg they used.

A) The Super Civilization Destroying Borg from TNG? (I'd say the outcome would be Armageddon)

I was referring to the TNG/First Contact Borg just to clarify

B) The Cyber-Wusses from VOY? ("Piece of cake , Cap'n Sisko. Want your raktajino now , or in five minutes once we mop up these Borg?" "I believe I'll have it now , Quark. After all...it IS the Borg...")

That has never ceased to **** me the hell off, I'm glad the post-VOY and post-TNG writers fixed this...

 

[Majestic]

Yeah the Borg were quite weak in VOY, I still loved that series, one of my favourite Trek series along with ENT. But I agree the Borg were just too weak, they were pretty good in Scorpion but just got weaker and weaker as time went on.

 

[Tholian_Storm]

I was referring to the TNG/First Contact Borg just to clarify


That has never ceased to **** me the hell off, I'm glad the post-VOY and post-TNG writers fixed this...

I agree. I'll never forget Wolf 359....::involuntary shiver::

Yeah the Borg were quite weak in VOY, I still loved that series, one of my favourite Trek series along with ENT. But I agree the Borg were just too weak, they were pretty good in Scorpion but just got weaker and weaker as time went on.

VOY rocked for the most part and ENT was fantastic. I'm just...I don't know...grasping at straws or something. I really think they just wrote themselves into a corner when they started using the Borg as a plot device in VOY. They stopped being scary and uber-baddies and I was like , "Oh. Another Borg episode...better start dinner."

 

[Majestic]

VOY rocked for the most part and ENT was fantastic. I'm just...I don't know...grasping at straws or something. I really think they just wrote themselves into a corner when they started using the Borg as a plot device in VOY. They stopped being scary and uber-baddies and I was like , "Oh. Another Borg episode...better start dinner."

Indeed they lost the feel to them, the feel they had in Best of Both Worlds and First Contact. They even did the same for Species 8472 in that episode where they found the training facility, so it wasn't like the Borg were getting replaced by a new enemy that seemed invincible.

 

[Tholian_Storm]

Indeed they lost the feel to them, the feel they had in Best of Both Worlds and First Contact. They even did the same for Species 8472 in that episode where they found the training facility, so it wasn't like the Borg were getting replaced by a new enemy that seemed invincible.

I miss "mystery badguys". Ones we did not see very often and when they did , it was like , "The house might be on fire...but...Gorn...AND Tholians! in one episode!!"

I'd love to see the Gorn , Tholians , and other Rare Species make a comeback into the Trek Universe.

Heck , I'd settle for seeing Balok and the S.S. Fesarius again.

 

[Muad'Dib]

Sidetracking the original question for one moment; as to the strength of the Borg in Voy vs TNG I think it's all relative to your pov of the series continuity. The TNG Borg of Wolf 359 faced much older model of ships with largely unprepared systems while the Intrepid was made in the post-Borg encounter era. Since Wolf 359 it was stated in TNG that Starfleet sought to refit the entire Armada with better anti-Borg weapons and defenses, they actually had an entire division for this in "Best of Both Worlds".

One might argue that the Intrepid is from the NextGen tech much like the Sovereign, Akira, Steamrunner, etc. These ships were probably outfitted with much better defenses stemming from several years of Borg research. Also let us not forget that Voyager itself was remodified countless times with Delta Quadrant technologies, including Borg enhancements from Seven which might provide better defenses against them. In contrast see the fleet that battled the cube in First Contact, while the fleet was suffering losses they also had inflicted massive damage to the cube as the Enterprise arrived; they would have taken that ship down with much smaller losses than Wolf 359 even if Data hadn't suggested the targeting area.

The same could be said of DS9's miraculous resistance of Jem H'Dar tech. Does anyone remember when the Odyssey was almost taken down with 2 shots, the ship was breaking apart from the inside even before the 'bug' crashed into it, meanwhile their weapons didn't chip the paint in the hull of the bug. Suddenly a year or two later the Defiant is taking a gazillion hits from entire Dominion fleets, hell the Runabouts were taking hits from Dominion ships and surviving. Starfleet weapons suddenly were also very effective against Jem H'Dar warships only a year or two after the original encounter and that was without real study of Dominion tech I could recall as they didn't have captured Dominion tech to retrofit.

I hate that in TNG they scream of Borg invasions and it's always only a single ship, but that's a different thing altogether. My point is that like the Jem H'Dar, the Borg probably faced stronger defenses specifically designed against them by Voyager's encounters...aside from that ship's mentioned augmentations during its journey through the Delta Quadrant.

As for the original question, a cube and two spheres might have just plowed through everything. I doubt the Dominion would do anything except continue to batter Starfleet while they in turn tried fighting on two fronts if not running altogether; the Jem H'Dar were gung ho nuts but Starfleet was never above retreating.

If the Borg had mounted a real full scale invasion Armada style, I think they would have just massacred everything; neither the Allies nor the Dominion could stand up against a full blown Borg invasion, enhanced weapons or not.

My two cents

 

[Dontai]

I agree with Tholian_Storm, the borg were once most feared and hated enemy. They have no central leader, thier unstoppable, and relentless. They made them so weak in every thing past TNG. Voyager, first contact, it's all same. Borg have no central leader, the drones act collectively, forming central brain ... so why they down size in perfection and get a central unit, that if it dies, the entire collective does ... that and vinculum is ugly. The only way federation was able to survive, was to send them computer virus. The only reason why the cube self destructed was because it didn't no how to combat the virus, and they didn't want risk infecting other cubes. Dominion would simply see the borg has invading force; just like federation. Another threat to the founder. They would start two wars, which they cant handle. They also made founder way way to powerful, the way they were shapeshifting is impossible, mass ratio wouldn't work out. Also, just becuase they take the form of some one doesn't mean their impossible to detected. On the topic at hand, the dominion would see the borg as a threat to founders, and would simply attack them both.

The borg would over run the dominion alpha quadrant forces, destroying or assimilating them. Then what was left of them,the breen and the cardassians would have ben thrown at the federation, probably destroying the federation. The romulans, klingons, and federation remnant would have made a death pact, and would have thrown every thing els at the borg. We would win, borg would be defeated ... again. Mean while the borg would have tracked down the dominion, and would evade and completely destroyed the dominion. The founder would most likely be dead or in hiding. The gamma quadrant would belong to the borg. The dominon hasn't encounter them before, they don't know how to defend against them. Ramming wouldn't help (tractor beam). Heck, we couldn't even defend against them with direct force(ever). We had to have picard be assimilated, and rescued, to give us a opportunity to send them virus that destroyed one cube out 100,000,000. (1 out of 100,000,000). Dominion dont stand chance. The federation had time to upgrade, but it didn't help much ... First contact. Look at all those upgraded akiras being blasted to bits. Heck we had ever since Q got bored, to upgraded. Did it help? no! Dominion are dead ...

 

[Tholian_Storm]

Here goes a "What if...?" scenario for you.

Imagine if you will : The perfect Universe.

The Tholian Universe...heh...(Y'all knew I'd start with Tholians some day..)

Anywho..

What if the Borg encountered the Tholians? We have yet to confirm whether the Borg have encountered them yet , as it has not been established in canon Trek-lore. Besides being quadrapedal , I imagine an assimilated Tholian would be...interesting to see.

Back to my original premise , since we're on this "What if the Borg...?" kick.

If the Borg encountered a Fleet of Tholian Starships , what would be the outcome? These are the questions I pose:

#1) How effective would the Tholian Web be IF they managed to disable the Engines of a Cube or Sphere long enough to spin the Web?

#2) Would the Borg assimilate the Tholians upon victory? I imagine having access to the Tholian Web would be something to ponder..

#3) Who do you think would win this fight? (We're talking TNG-era Uber-Villian Borg , here!)

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

The borg only seemed to get weaker because over time we learned more about them. If you remember right. In the original series, the Klingons were made out to be a strong powerful race. Now over the years, we have gained alot of understand about them. I think this is a classic mirror of real ife. Someone or a group seems all big and bad but after you get to know them and understand them It is then easy to take them down.

 

[Knight]

the problem with Voyager is that they ignored what had been done with the TNG borg - in the "best of both worlds" book about the individual series, theres a segment under TNG where they say they deliberately didnt use them often in TNG so they could keep them as a big menacing threat overlooming everything.

Voyager then completely obliterated that.

 

[Majestic]

#2) Would the Borg assimilate the Tholians upon victory? I imagine having access to the Tholian Web would be something to ponder..

You know I wonder if the Tholians or even the Founders for that matter would be capable of being assimilated?

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

I think the founders could be assimilated. If it happened in the great link then it would be to easy. LOL

 

[Tholian_Storm]

You know I wonder if the Tholians or even the Founders for that matter would be capable of being assimilated?

I really wouldn't think that the Founders would be capable of being assimilated , now that you mention it. I've always understood the assimilation process to involve sending the nanoprobes through the blood stream where they would begin the process which uses the circulatory system to spread the nanoprobes to other parts of the host's body. Founders , as we've seen , have no internal organs or circulatory systems - so to speak.

That's a debate worthy of its own Thread , y'know?

But as far as the Tholians go , I don't see any reasons why they couldn't be assimilated. From what I understand of Tholian Biology , Tholians have all the prerequisites for assimilation (i.e. circulatory system , internal organs , etc). My issue comes from the fact that Tholians are quadrapedal and require certain evironmental conditions (high ambient temperatures) to maintain their carapace. I know that the Borg prefer it hot , as seen on First Contact , but that's nowhere near the temperature that Tholians require to survive (130* and up). Anything colder is torturous and could result in the Tholian dying. I don't know if the cold would bother them after assimilation , as the nanoprobes would probably be able to adapt , but...

Also , the Tholians have a Hive Mind Collective (the Tholian Assembly) that's a smaller scale than that of the Borg. Whereas the Borg Collective subsumes the individual , all Tholians ARE individuals that are in constant contact with the rest of the Tholian Assembly. If the Borg were to somehow be able to assimilate a Tholian , would the Borg be able to hear the rest of the Assembly's thoughts? Would the Tholians be able to hear the Borg Collective's thoughts?

We need a Borg Specialist here to sort this out because now I've gone cross-eyed.

 

[Dontai]

Also , the Tholians have a Hive Mind Collective (the Tholian Assembly) that's a smaller scale than that of the Borg. Whereas the Borg Collective subsumes the individual , all Tholians ARE individuals that are in constant contact with the rest of the Tholian Assembly. If the Borg were to somehow be able to assimilate a Tholian , would the Borg be able to hear the rest of the Assembly's thoughts? Would the Tholians be able to hear the Borg Collective's thoughts?

We need a Borg Specialist here to sort this out because now I've gone cross-eyed.

Yes

no.

When borg assimilated some one, they gain their abilities, that includes the ability of telepathy or higher frequency life forms (sonar echo location ect). Tholians are not born hearing other Tholians thoughts. They have to be willing to listen to them or let other hear their own thought. Kind like we have to make sound for other to hear us, but doesn't take much for us to do it. Borg could tell Tholians to not connect to the Tholians Hive Mind. At same time they could say yes connect to it, but don't let them read your thoughts ... which my tip the Tholians off that something is wrong. Also if Tholians take crap or leak ... would you really want them reading your though at that moment. Now i have gone cross eyed ...