The World (Earth) Without Us

[Aerilon]

I shall warn those reading in advance, this is quite possibly going to be one of, if not the biggest post I have ever made to start off a thread. Those of you who are likely to get bored, or who don't like reading articles, might as well close down the window now

Anyhow, yesterday, whilst at work, I was reading the Daily Express (a British Newspaper). I usually read The Sun, or The Daily Mirror (two other British Newspapers) though I had gone through them earlier in the day, and as it happened, the Daily Express was the only one left to read. Regardless, after skipping through a few pages, I came across an article titled 'Earth Without Us'.

What would happen to our planet if humanity simply disappeared?

The article focused on what life would be like if Humanity simply disappeared, be it through radiation poising, alien abduction, or we all just 'vanished'. The Newspaper didn't say those things, I am. Just giving you a reason as to why we'd no longer be around to screw up the planet even more than we have done so already.

It was going over how long the Earth would take, before all existence of Humanity was erased. Do note, when I say that humanity simply vanishes, or disappears, everything we've done, all the buildings we've made, and all the items we have created remain. It is just us of which disappear. Everything else from Houses, to Mobile Phones, to Clothes and Computers remain.

Anyway, as I was saying, the article was going through how long it would take for buildings and such to crumble, and disappear. An interesting fact, is that it stated the Older buildings would most likely stay in place for a much longer period, than any of the new buildings we have up today.

The Great Wall of China, Stonehenge, The Pyramids, these would all remain long after our modern homes had crumbled into dust. To think, some of these structures (the Pyramids for example) have already been around for over 2000, 3000 years, and they remain in a reasonable condition (bearing in mind, they get many visitors, and that would help with their degrading).

There is also a Bridge somewhere (I forget where it is, or the name of it) but it is recent(ish) of which would remain for quite some time. This article also went on to discuss other items, such as Nuclear Power Plants and such. Left untouched, these buildings would explode, and fill a lot of our atmosphere with poisonous gases, which could possibly do a lot of damage to nature.

There were two scenarios with this. Either these buildings would just 'Stop Working' or, they'd explode under the pressure. It was stated that it was a 50/50 chance on both. So even with us gone, we could still do much damage to the planet, because of things we have created.

It also mentions about wildlife. The Seas' would fill with Fish, the planes would fill with Animals, it was said somewhere (I think) that the population of African Elephants would increase by 70%+

Other animals like Cows, Pigs, Sheep etc would most likely die out. If you think about it, these animals are looked after by us, at least to a point. Without us, they'd die out, or would be hunted by other animals.

The article also made the point of addressing everything we've done to screw up the planet. Polluted Air, Polluted Ocean, other than some of the items mentioned below, this pollution would correct itself within a few hundred years, and as stated in the article, Mother Nature would be able to do her thing, not having to fight what we throw in her direction.

Furthermore, it stated about smaller items, such as Plastic Bags, and Paper. Plastic Bags and Paper would take a long time to degrade. Plastic Bags especially.

People may think that Paper would get wet, and rot or whatever, but if you think about ancient scripts, and what they've been written on (Paper) some of those have remained in tact for generations, if not centuries or more.

And then you get plastic bags, of which would continue to be blown around the Earth centuries after we are gone. It was theorised, that at the ending of our Star (our Sun), when the Earth is mostly desert, with limited plant life (due to heat) and such, plastic bags would still be there. Milena on, those small (or in some cases, rather big) plastic bags would remain.

And to think, when we use plastic bags, what do we do with them? We throw them away, into a big, which they gets taken to a skip of sorts, and dumped in the Earth. That will stay there for a long, long time. Where you've got other items, such as gone off food, or maybe cardboard or something, which will degrade quick(ish), those plastic bags will remain under the ground for centuries on end.

This article also brought up the fairly unique point, that if Aliens visited our world, would they have known that any civilisation had ever existed? Bearing in mine that most of the structures we have would be rubble, and those still remaining would be overgrown, or buried. Unless Aliens knew exactly where to look, and what to look for, trace of our existence wouldn't be there, thus Earth would be passed off as just another planet.

Does make you wonder, along with thinking of things in a much larger perspective. And to think that none of this is going to change. People know of the dangers, people know how much we screw up the planet, yet nothing is done to prevent (or help) the matter. Would Earth be better off without us?

Just thought I'd share this article, and my views on it. Feel Free to Discuss...

I'm sure Google will provide some results too, if people wish to read into it more. Just Type Earth without Humans or something.

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

That is an interesting deal. I believe nothing will change because we are to dependent on the all mighty dollar(or whichever currency you may use) Most people want change but no one wants to pay the bill to make the change. When I say no one. I mean no group as a whole or even majority.

 

[Majestic]

Very interesting. The only way to stop that was if humanity did disappear overnight all the stuff humanity created (power stations, plastic bags, banana splits ) went with us.

But I do agree with CrazyFrog's post there.

 

[Paul]

Intresting . the nuclear power plants would mushroom for sure ( dont forget what the russians did , went out for a drink and came back to a overloaded powerplant ! ) .

But i think they would find signs of us ( bags , tools , ruins ect ) , but unless the web is still online they wont know our history

 

[Majestic]

but unless the web is still online they wont know our history

You forget the old fasion books that are still all over the world in numerous libaries and book shops plus many homes.

 

[Paul]

Lol i havent gone to a bookshop in years , the net is god

 

[Elrond]

That is an interesting deal. I believe nothing will change because we are to dependent on the all mighty dollar(or whichever currency you may use) Most people want change but no one wants to pay the bill to make the change. When I say no one. I mean no group as a whole or even majority.

We would have had a base on the moon and the Battlestar Galactica by now if it weren't for the whole "OMG it costs too much money" thing that politicians like to make excuses for. We got the technology to make the planet better, well we have the ability to make that technology. We do have the ability to make the planet better, it just takes a lot of effort to get it through everyone's heads. Think about how hard it is for us to change our own lives in some ways. To change everyone's lives and have them realize how much a change is needed is going to take some time to do, but there are a lot of people out there doing things about it, but most aren't in a position to do anything about it, sadly.

Best thing to do sometimes is write your congressman, or write to the parliament. If enough people write about it they'll eventually get sick of receiving requests for it and maybe start doing things about it. I know for one thing that's how I got my first job, by continuing to send resumes until they folded.

 

[Majestic]

Elrond is right. I heard that somewhere, might be Germany there is a factory that is ready to build cars that run a water or air powered engines instead of fossil fuels. But the oil companies are paying it to keep it closed as they know that if the cars are allowed to be built in a few years they would be the majority out of business.

The oil companies in my opinion are the biggest problem we have as they have way too much power and are pretty much a bunch of crooks.

 

[Jasoneagle]

Elrond is right. I heard that somewhere, might be Germany there is a factory that is ready to build cars that run a water or air powered engines instead of fossil fuels. But the oil companies are paying it to keep it closed as they know that if the cars are allowed to be built in a few years they would be the majority out of business.

The oil companies in my opinion are the biggest problem we have as they have way too much power and are pretty much a bunch of crooks.

Not just the Oil Companies But general Energy companies them selves.

And yes the All Mighty Dollar is the new god of man, but dose anyone remember why the USA went to the moon? and why we have not been back?
We (USA) raced Russia there and now that no one want to pay the bill for the Space program we have halted almost all space programs and only go to orbit.

 

[Phoenix]

I must admit, I reckon it would be better for the Earth in general if we all suddenly ceased to exist. Sure, there might still be some...problems, long after we're gone, but in time, the Earth will heal...and adapt.

But, on the topic of our monuments and cities....this little verse says it all...


Quote:
I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lips, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings,
Look on my Works ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."


Our cities, and ancient wonders, will last a long time. But, sooner or later, the Earth (and the universe in general) will forget we ever existed....

 

[Syf]

One monument has been overlooked here. It would be the mountain that man has carved not one, but 4 faces into solid granite. We call it Mount. Rushmore. It would remain for millions of years, long after most any other trace of man. That was the whole point of carving it, a monument to the ages to come.

Now me, I love topics like this.

I agree that most likely, our nuclear devices would degrade and explode. But not all at the exact same time. So overall, yes, there would be radioactive fallout for a period. But even that would expire. Look at that Russian reactor, the animal life there has "exploded" too, as the rad levels have dropped just a little. There are increases of plant and animal life regardless, when man is no longer there.

Yeah, domesticated animals would face peril shortly after we were gone. But at the same time, remember that all animals were wild before they were domesticated. With the exception of our "experimental" breeds, such as those "lap dogs" dog breeders have created over the centuries. But 90% of the animal species would move on without humans. They would revert to what they were before we domesticated them. And better yet, the endangered species would make a massive comeback. That's right, Man is every endangered species worst enemy.

I find it Ironic, in the cycle of life, Man has no natural enemy. We "make up" our enemies within our own ranks. Every other animal, insect, ameba... has a natural enemy. Another species that will attempt to wipe out said species. But not man... Man, if in a state of mind to not squabble between itself, is the only species poised to dominate the entire animal kingdom, the planet, and anything else we wish. What brings us down is Politics and Religion.

Our kings and priests make war... That is a sad thing actually. If you look at the average man, he doesn't really want to have to die fighting for "his country", regardless of which country. No, the average man would just as well be happy going about, living out his life. A few of this species would strive to discover new things... Both to improve knowledge and the general way mankind lives. Really, without Politics and religions, man would not fight itself. Every, and I mean every war, has been fight because of a political or religious figurehead. Be it over land, or food, or ethnics, or what ever form of dung one wants, it's always been over one of these 2 types of issues, caused by the propaganda of a political or religious leader. Believe it or not, that's the sad truth. Man has no natural enemy... except itself.

If we all could learn to tolerate other's religons... If we erased all "national borders", and just called ourselves a single species, and accepted this truth, we could end 80% of all our "created" problems in a very very short time. The other 20% of the problems could be solved with new science research.

And yeah, talking about wars, we have created one "New" thing that can cause our nations to war over.... Oil! As a species, we really really need to put a stop to our dependence on this demon. As this "energy source" dwindles, all of us are poised to have to fight each other over it. We are already seeing the signs of this happening... In the news, they talk a lot about China is increasing it's consumption of Oil. It's in the news every other day that scientists say our supply of Oil is starting to run low... So as much as ALL of us want to refuse to accept the truth, we will go to war with each other over the Oil supplies.... and for what? It will not last long. Maybe another 60 years at current consumption levels. But since that level of consumption can not be maintained, war is inevitable. And for what? Over a supply that would last "just one superpower nation" for another 200 years... If, If no one else used it? Well that's not going to be swallowed well by all the other nations... so war it is. We will fight over something that is meaningless. Oil should be only a tool. A tool to advance ourselves to a new level of technology in which we don't need oil. It should be allowed to go the way of the previous tools in mankind's history. Like leather... There is no need for leather any more. We have learned to make new clothing material. There is now no shortage of good leather because we have replaced it as the main source of clothing material. That is what we must do with oil.

Yeah, we have evil Oil corporations that want to prevent the production of other energies. That is greed for you. But, they can not force us not to use other energies. If any man wants to use a different source of energy, they can. You don't have to buy oil products if you chose not to.

What other energy is capable of preventing man for destroying itself? Electricity... Solar Electricity, Wind Electricity, Ocean electricity. Electricity is the most abundant source of energy. And there are ways to get it. Products are out there, thanks to science and technology available right now, that can allow us right now to switch to electricity. And there is so much electricity to be had, that we need not fight over it, ever. We can terminate the threat Oil posses for us if we all simply want to. One less reason for political and religious leaders to sound the drums of war. One less chance of the earth moving on without mankind...

Electricity can carry all our wants and needs... nothing else. No other source of energy can do that, not Oil (Oil of any kind in fact...)

Simply said, the only thing that can "create" an earth without man... is man itself. No viruses, no Asteroids or comets, nothing else can remove man from existence, other than man him self. We have no natural enemy, other than our own ideals.

 

[Elrond]

A billion years however is quite a long time, even to any such ancient races out there, for none may manage to live that long besides the Lord himself, who has endured an eternity, for he had no beginning, and most certainly will have no end. It is difficult for anyone to imagine something that has no beginning, nor an end, to it. Many consider that only the finite may exist. I agree that in our minds, only the finite can exist. However, everything goes on forever - space, time, the ideas of space and time, and so on. The rules of physics change everywhere you go, for matter is constantly phasing through many of the various elemental and unexplained forces within the universe (the Universe being everything that is, as there cannot be an alternate "everything", as the definition of the Universe implies exclusively everything, no matter how insignificant, significant, amazing, incredible, mysterious, unexplained, and most definitely, the more insane parts of it - parts we have yet to see no doubt).

Humanity is small. Many races likely exist within this galaxy, and far more exist in the over 100 billion galaxies that make up just our very very small observable Universe for which most agree is only the observable limits. How can we prove what we cannot see, smell, feel, taste, or even scan or sense? How can we disprove it though? That's kind of what the Lord is like - unexplainable. Something that can't be proven or disproven must exist, as in an infinite amount of time (which there has been since the beginning, since there is no true beginning), an infinite amount of things may have actually happened an infinite amount of times, with each fraction of a plank time creating a new and unique alternate "reality" without our "everything", within our "universe" - both observed and unobserved, observable and unobservable.

Seeing as it all never had a true beginning, the Universe's true size is unlimited - its life span is unlimited - undefined. Time and size in our perspective is far different, most likely, than time conceived of by God's perspective, though he may see through our eyes as well since he should know everything, he did after all design it even without it having any beginning.

But for us there was a solid beginning, the Big Bang, that formed the ever-changing constants in physics that we know today, for not all constants can remain constant forever (maybe Pi can, who knows, but in other dimensions it would be different).

Several strings of energy came together and started to interrupt the energy surrounding it, forming the process that began to create matter - and in the observable universe, that would be the matter we can all now see. In other realms (other big bangs that may have happened 400 trillion light years away, who knows), other realities, other alternate timelines, and other dimensions/membranes of the continuum, everything can either be completely the opposite, greatly different, somewhat different, a little bit different...or...almost an exact duplicate. Possibilities are limitless.

Seeing as we are a lot smaller now than we thought we were (where once before we could think of nothing beyond the observable), what happens to humanity from here on in we can either choose to live with and enjoy the time we have, or waste it all by worrying about things that are far outside our ability to control. Many creative and inventive minds may yet find a way to handle the energy, resource, disease, famine, war, unrest, and terrorist unrest; however, it seems worse every time we turn around.

There is no doubt that humanity is quite close to the brink of total chaos, but not total annihilation - not yet. There is still some time left. For us living now, we have a generation or two until the most terrible things begin to happen, most likely. What we are seeing now is just the beginning of the unrest that may spark...into total chaos. What we have as an advantage is time to prevent our grandchildren from suffering the fate that we indeed know they'll suffer if we do nothing about it.

Every nation must be willing to defend its own, for violence is a way that humanity cannot break - for there are far too many of us to fully control to that level. One person can spark a conflict that may lead to fear, to anger, to hatred, to guilt, to suffering, to blind pride and arrogance, and fell deeds.

When the shortage of gas (which is not quite a shortage, yet, but more like a transition) begins to become greater, we will have truly entered into the transitional stage between combustible fuels and whatever may be out there to replace them - efficiently and feasibly.

The transition will probably see the decrease of worldwide transportation. No transportation means no delivery of steel and fuel, sees less fuel, sees even less delivery of steel, sees the industrial world collapsed, for a time. The economic blow would be substantial - disastrous - cataclysmic. We see movies all of the time about such similar disasters. However, September 11th reminded us that life is just as much like the movies as the movies are - except far far worse. September 11th may have been the beginning of the new great war, and if not, it will most certainly have led to it in our future.

When transportation ceases, it's done for a good while. The lag of the times will keep the economy of the world at a stand-still, even whilst new technologies may arrive to counter it, it will still take a long time to recover from the lag.

Without support of transportation, natural disasters will become far more deadly. Everything from internet cafes to power plants to disaster relief and aid to the goods each of us depend on from day to day will become extinct. We will be struggling to survive - especially because we grew up in a technological age and have become almost absolutely dependent on it. What if your power went off tonight and it was three years before it comes back on? A great many people might not survive it, many would not know how to survive it. It has been a long time since developed nations depended on hunting and gathering, farming, and so on. Many would still survive, but America for instance would, I imagine, be able to support only 15% of the population it currently does.

Disadvantaged nations that do not depend on technology may survive, having not noticed the change...for the most part. However, when the struggle for resources becomes grave, their lives will also be in danger - the danger of war. They are already in that position, a great many of them. The continent of Africa has seen some of the most terrible wars in recent times to be compared to World War II. No nuclear weapons, but with tensions on the rise all of the time, I'm scared to death for some of the nations there. I can't help but to feel worried. For even so small as we are on this small world just three worlds from the nearest star, in our own eyes, the world is pretty darn big, and we are dead set on saving it, or should be. Anything in our control may have to be approached and dealt with, pending fear or not. It's going to take a lot of brave people and those willing to make sacrifices, no matter how small or big, to get through this next darkness.

Fear and paranoia is on the rise. It's now comparable to that seen in the 60's and 70's during the reign of Nikita Khrushchev. Pretty frightening.

Israel and Iran go to war. It's certain that this conflict will involve bloodshed. It's not a matter of if, but when, the onset of all-out war will begin. The Middle East is nearly ready to fall, and that's a shame. Millions are at stake now. I'd rather see neither side having to sacrifice men just because of the thoughts and philosophies of one crack-pot leader spouting offensive words to certain nations in the world such as putting down Israel constantly.

No matter the threat, fighting is required for defense, never for revenge. Save those you can, but pray for those who can't be saved, for they pick a life of violence, because that is the only thing some people know.

Humanity has a hell of a lesson ahead of it. Ironic, it seems, that it should have already learned that lesson.

"One day, there will be a war so great and so terrible that all will throw down their weapons and shed themselves of their armor and never ever fight again."

It seems that time may be upon us.

The world has yet to see itself without the dominion of mankind. And I hope that doesn't happen.

If humanity does disappear, I fear that even Mount Rushmore will find its end - perhaps not in millions of years, but in a billion it will definitely have disappeared, with maybe a protrusion of what used to be a nose, only looking like a peculiar outcrop of rock, sticking up just a few feet from the ground that has been covered with a billion years of sediment.

A time capsule encased in plastic may too last a while, maybe longer than Mount Rushmore, but if sucked into the Earth through faulting, that too will not survive. As the Earth reaches its final stages of aging, the sun will have come to the Earth. The features on the surface will be gone and the oceans long evaporated. The crust will be quite flattened. By this time, the tectonic plate cycle itself will have died - it's not an infinite cycle, but one meant to be broken one day. When that happens, the story of Planet Earth will be over.

But there's still time now to enjoy the planet we've been put on and count ourselves damn lucky we're here to experience it, to whatever end. By the time a billion years comes, humanity may have survived long enough to escape this world and find another world similar to this one, and by that time even adapt to its climate and conditions. For now, humanity is staying put here, until we exhaust the Earth itself. We're not even close to exhausting all of the Earth's resources. Humanity is not close to that time yet. But in a couple hundred years, it will become a problem.

There's still time to counter the problems of this age. But it will take a lot of work.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

i think the planet would be better off if we weren't on it. not that i'm advocating destruction of humanity...

all that's wrong with earth would right itself in time.

DP

 

[Elrond]

For the moment it looks like we're here to stay, to destroy the world.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

lol, yeah pretty much sums it up, huh?

 

[Elrond]

Well, most of my posts end up being pretty unnecessary, especially that long one I made. Eh, oh well. I'm just not as smart as anyone else in the known world.

 

[Jasoneagle]

Though they are long they are however insiteful, I am reminded about a story that I read in School, I believe it was by Isaac Asimov, about a House that was fully automated and when Necular war killed mankind off it still carried out it roll and programed duties, this house though it did burn at the end of the story it did however continue and if it had access to more water still would have operated with out human intervention.

And I would not doubt that this very same discussion was held on Mars (for those that do not believe that life existed on Mars before, I will just sat this Have an open mind, why would the Powers that be only put life on this one Planet in the whole universe, and also their is proof that their was water on mars at one point in her History and where their is water their is air and where their is air...

 

[DarkPhoenix]

don't say things like that, elrond. i read every bit of your post. i've read all the posts that are on this thread. the question reminded me of a discovery channel special i watched once. post as big as ya want!

DP

 

[Elrond]

Thanks. Well, either way, the way things seem to be in the world right now, we're in for one heck of a showdown with the devil himself if things on this world do not shape up, and soon. I'd say about 10 years ago there was a fighting chance for things to be brought to justice, but now, the hour grows late. When the time comes where you can smell the falling of the world in the very air you breathe, you know that things are about to go down.

Every millennium, there are rants about how the world is going to end on such and such a date, and that's always false. The calendar never gives a real time that anyone's going to die or when someone will be born. A lot of the things that happen are pure coincidence. Some of the other things that were predicted to happen in the future did happen, if you rearrange the translations of ancient words into an incarnation of writing that appears to make a prediction sound true.

However, these days the air itself has a dark quality to it. The air is normal, the ground feels the same, but the feeling I get is that the end times have been beginning for some time now. They most likely began five to six thousand years ago, when civilization first began to take dominion. But if we're talking about the true end of days, it seems like we're all living it right now.

Lack of trust, lack of respect for elders, lack of common sense and courtesy, lack of placing any value on life whatsoever, and a large abundance of war-mongering anger. That is the lot of these times, and it is a troubled lot, to say the least of it. Many of the people who used to fight against evil are now turning to it, in frustration out of loss and toil, quickly losing sight of what they have and never gaining that sight back. Society is essentially blind, for the most part, in this new terrifying age.

For the most part, no one's all that likely to face their doom on every given day, and one may remain safe just about anywhere, and the doom seems to come at random, when you don't expect it. It's because of that for which there is so much fear over things no one has any control over.

I had a moment earlier today when I hit a wall with my fist because I was angry, for little or no reason. I just felt like hurting my hand on the wall, to soften the mental pain of everything that's been going on lately. I use physical pain as a shield against mental pain. For in this world, one pain may lessen another.

I'm frustrated over some medical problems that keep popping up every few months or so. It's taken a toll on me more mentally than physically. There's the anxiety of not knowing when another attack will come, which is probably at least half my problem, a problem I can't seem to diminish.

I would hate to say this, but I am afraid that the world overall would be a lot better without humanity. Was God's design faulty? I can't think that it was. There has to be some point to all of it. But lately there doesn't seem to be much point in it at all.

God decided one day that he would not know the outcome of the future, that eventhough he could if he wanted to, he decided that he didn't want to, and the idea of fate being a constant was over, and existence began at that infinite time in the past. Then life came about at some point, and when humanity gained dominion over the world, everything began to lose its purpose. Life lost value to many, or most. And the world was given to lesser men - corrupt leaders, concerned not even for their own families but instead for how large their wallet was. The dominion of man fell into ruin, the nature the world had known for so long withered. Mankind wanted to give itself everything, and in that struggle it lost everything that meant something. Humanity began to lose its...humanity, the purpose for which it was made.

There's time but not much. Time is such a variable concept as it is to begin with. Within seconds our place in the universe that we can see was made. In comparison to that, politicians argue over what words to censor over a period of years, and nothing is accomplished in that time. Too much distraction over trivial and empty things. The land gleams white with stone and steel, though in its people the lands are covered with many dark souls that have lost their way. It's like "The Night of the Living Dead" except the people walking the Earth are at least 'partially' alive, if you want to call it that. Militants and rebels walk around with their guns, taking innocent people from their homes in some war-battered nations, thinking that doing this makes some difference. Well it does make a difference, but it's not exactly the kind of difference anyone should even think about wanting to make. What kind of prosperity can come from killing? Is mankind, overall, so arrogant as to think that we can justify death? Well, for the most part, many do think that way. Everyone grows up watching war movies thinking that war is honorable. The honorable part of war is both when that war takes no innocent life, when the only death seen is that of those who the innocent people must defend themselves against, and when the war is over with. An even more honorable war is one in which both sides actually consider talking, as opposed to having anyone in their nations have to load even one bullet or start up even one war plane or battleship.

There's no glory to be gained from going to war. If you have to defend yourself, you have to, but taking any kind of pleasure from it is quite morbid. The only pleasure one should take from it is that their deeds are getting both sides closer to the end of the war, so it doesn't go on any longer. Eventually both sides in a conflict will talk and see that things could have been settled peacefully after all, though by then it's always too late, and the death tolls of previous wars remind us all too well of that. Even if struggling for peace through talking is stressful and oftentimes boring, monotonous, repetitive, and frustrating, war is an unmeasurable amount worse. Politicians throw chairs at each other and when they get tired of that, they start a war and use their own citizens as sort of like warriors or gladiators in a Colosseum. Maybe we do need a Colosseum in every nation, it would produce less of a death toll. Or else we just have the two leaders of either side fight to the death to determine who wins the war. That way we don't expend people and end up taking a chunk out of freedom just to gain a little bit of security.

A good alternate to war is an online game - get everyone on both sides to "link up" or whatever, and have a massive "LAN" party. Have them play every online game and tally up the score in the end and there's your war.