Plot Protection

[ISS_Enterprise_D]

Whenever Voyager seems to be brought up in conversations, I hear cries of, "Plot Protection This!!!" and "Plot Protection That!!!" I was rather young when I watched Voyager, and as such I couldn't differenciate between moments that it should have and shouldn't have survived.

I'd like to hear some examples of this so-called "plot protection" Voyager seemed to receive oh-so-often.

I'll start with an example my father gave me: The Hirogen. He said that the hunter species had starships that were too well-armed for Voyager to survive under normal circumstances, and they survived every encounter

 

[Jetfreak]

I blame the unimaginative writers for such occurances.

Yes, Voyager is also a capable ship (which others don't seem to accept to well) but sometimes they go way overboard.

Technobabble saved the day numerous times. But I still loved the series.


And for the record, Voyager haters have never really given me a good enough reason to why the series "sucked". They all sounded like nitpicky and overcritical prejudice to me.

 

[Adm_Z]

Yeh, As I told Mal(yet another avid VOY hater) I grew up on Voyager, so I"m biased.

 

[CABAL]

I also grew up on Voyager, but I do admit it had some odd plot stuff that didn't always make sense in hindsight. On the other hand, so did every Star Trek series. Overall, I think it was a nice change of pace and was fun to watch.

 

[Starfox1701]

best example is the tactical cube.

 

[Borg_Queen]

best example is the tactical cube.

I can see what you mean, due to that the Tactical Cube is twice as powerful and strong as the standard one.

Spoiler: A spoiler of the episode "Unimatrix Zero"

Thus Voyager should never have survived an encounter with it. I think I can say the Borg vessel had their weapons on low setting. But there are people that think that Voyager destroyed that ship at the end, and thus forget that it was the Borg Queen that ordered it to self destruct there.

Just a note; Voyager is one of my favorite ST series.

 

[Jetfreak]

I can see what you mean, due to that the Tactical Cube is twice as powerful and strong as the standard one

Although quite smaller too.

 

[Borg_Queen]

Although quite smaller too.

Borg ships grows. It's canon that the Cube in FC was just 900 meters wide, so who's to say that another Tactical Cube can't be 3000 meters wide as well?

 

[Jetfreak]

The FC Cube was really 900 meters wide? Source please?

I always thought it was at least 3000. Even EAS says so

 

[Borg_Queen]

The FC Cube was really 900 meters wide? Source please?

I always thought it was at least 3000. Even EAS says so

Source is three places:

Spoiler: Sources

One is in the script book to FC, another is backstage story of making of FC in the extra material in the special edition to FC there they said they decided to have the Cube at only 900 meters wide so the fleet would be able to defeat it. And the third is seen in the movie itself, there f. ex. a Sabre passes the Cube and don't look much smaller then it rounds the corner on the "aft" of the Cube. We even knows the Enterprise-E to be almost 700 meters long there, and then it pases the Cube we can see the Sovereign is almost as long as the Cube is wide.

But now I think we need to get back to Voyager.

 

[Adm_Z]

Thats very interesting, I did not know that.

@ Jetfreak
Don't mess with the Queen, she knows her borgies!


I had always seen the Tacticle cube as a smaller armored version of the classic cube, but nothing says that all cubes are a standard size. infact, it would make more sense to build them to a size based on their task.

 

[Jetfreak]

Hey, what did you expect? That's why I asked her in the first place.

Either way, this opens up new possibilities for my Borg Fleet in game. If sizes were dictated by role, then I'd have several specialized Cube subclasses.


Also, in regards to more plot protection.

USS Voyager did survive an engagement with three fully armed Kazon Battleships, an amazing feat for a mid size light cruiser.

She also survived a direct hit from an 8472 beam. When it was fired to a Cube, it was ripped to shreds.

 

[ISS_Enterprise_D]

She also survived a direct hit from an 8472 beam. When it was fired to a Cube, it was ripped to shreds.

My dad actually came up with a bit of a theory behind that, although I'm not sure it's plausible. The reason that Voyager took the hit was that 8472 had their weapons tuned to a frequency that would take out the Borg as fast as I would eat pizza It kind of make sense. 8472 didn't know about Starfleet ships at the time, and as such wouldn't know some weakness in the shields and such

 

[CABAL]

Another way to explain it would be that Voyager's shields took most of the punishment while Borg vessels use a hull reinforced with shields for defense. When you consider that Cube strength varies and its defense seems largely focused in its regenerative abilities, this seems like it may be plausible.

 

[Lord_Trekie]

I've always been opinionated that there were a few moments where the Voyager series should have ended because the ship should have been destroyed once and for all, for one reason or another, but it was still a fun series to watch none-the-less.

 

[StarBlade]

Plot protection was part of every series. And it's not just the ship-- it's also the characters. "How many minutes are left in the episode? Oh, this won't even touch them." The hard part is that the whole concept of an ensemble cast on a starship is that people don't want them to be dead. Writers work hard to get people emotionally invested in the character and it's very hard for them to part ways. Same goes for starships. (Runabouts are strangely immune, as are shuttlecraft. But they, like redshirts, come along whenever the writers need them most.)

 

[thunderfoot]

"Plot protection" is as old as Star Trek itself. How else does one explain a Constitution class heavy cruiser with admittedly fragile power systems("Captain! The engines canna take the strain!") triumphing over numerous combinations of enemies numerous times? Hard to justify or explain the TOS Klingons or the TOS Romulans not blowing Kirk's arrogant butt clean out of the stars. Jimmy T. and Co. have more lives than a cat, don't they?

The only plausible answer is they are human. Humans are capable of amazing things when they believe in themselves. This was one of the things Gene was trying to explain to us. We hear him but we are not always listening, are we? Just because something is wildly implausible does not automatically make it impossible. We have a saying down at the race track, "You ain't racin' the car, Boy. You're racin' the driver." Occasionally we whom are serious fans of Star Trek to the point we immerse ourselves in it this deeply forget this. Enterprise is not a ship without her crew. She cannot do anything at all unless someone actives the correct application on the correct computer at the correct moment.

I have preferences as to what parts of Trek I like. I seldom voice these out loud because whenever anyone does so, it seems to start conversations about which series or film was the most ________ - fill in the blank as appropriate. It is all Star Trek is it not? Why are we concerned at all about which parts are sensible? To someone who is a Voyager fan, Katy is a brave, determined, heroic figure who can accomplish her mission despite the long odds against her and her plucky little light cruiser. Sure she's had some amazing luck. Most other heroes do as well. To break down some incident to the point where, "There's no way they could have done this because of blah blah blah..." kinda spoils the whole idea of Star Trek in the first place IMO.

ST:XI. Some hate it and are contemptuous of it. This contempt spills over onto those who did like it. This is wrong and should be spoken against loudly, repeatedly, and as often as possible in the most direct manner. Others may not view this disrespect with the same concern I do. Just because there are some parts of Trek I prefer over others does not mean someone else cannot enjoy something different. Nor does it mean I must now spend all my time ranting about it and trying to convince people my viewpoint is the only correct one and anyone whom disagrees with me is an idiot. AFAIK, this behavior will still continue. Or worse, apparently be encouraged. I do not know why, nor do I really care. I do think it is very sad someone will seize on any flimsy reason to be disrespectful to a part of Star Trek they dislike and by extension be disrespectful to those who do like it. Looks like someone missed the point Gene was trying to get across in the first place with the IDIC philosophy.

You want Voyager to not be touched by a weapon which takes a Cube completely apart? Okay, then. Howzabout we do this and then worry about the how later. Every single Star Trek series and film ever made has holes in the plot I can drive my eighteen wheeler through. Sideways with room to spare. There has to be some willing suspension of disbelief for the entire thing to get off the ground in the first place. I like Star Trek. There are some things which do make me cringe or think, "That's not possible!" But I am not willing to psychoanalyze those parts to death. Too much effort for too little return.

 

[Eisenhower]

I've always been opinionated that there were a few moments where the Voyager series should have ended because the ship should have been destroyed once and for all, for one reason or another, but it was still a fun series to watch none-the-less.

Its really amazing though, they survived Borg cubes, Hirogen hunters, Kazon predators, Species 8472, etc etc. And they didn't even need a new paint job!

On the other end of the spectrum; the original defiant is destroyed by the Breen, TMP enterprise is destroyed by Kirk fighting off Klingons, TNG Enterprise D is destroyed by Bird of Prey (which is insane considering its supposed to be the federation flagship!). I'm not a fan of Enterprise, but even the NX-01 visibly took a beating in the expanse. Voyager's unique in that they truly do end up INSANELY better off at the end of the show then at the beginning. And they did that facing a vastly superior level of opposition than any other show, by themselves. Could you imagine if Voyager had actually been in the Dominion war? they could have won the war single handedly.

 

[Majestic]

Same can be said about DS9's Defiant. That's all I am going to say on the subject, I don't like people dishing it out to Voyager when DS9 had just as many flaws and a lot less structured storyline.

 

[Eisenhower]

Same can be said about DS9's Defiant. That's all I am going to say on the subject, I don't like people dishing it out to Voyager when DS9 had just as many flaws and a lot less structured storyline.

The Defiant led the fight like any other flag ship and ultimately was destroyed. they would take damage and have to get serious repairs done over and over again like any ship. I'm not trashing voyager I'm just describing what happened.

 

[thunderfoot]

TOS had more than its own share of things which were deus ex machina in nature. I dunno why VOY catches so much flak sometimes. I did not watch it because it showed up only sporadically in my area while it was running. Reruns are abundant now, however. I think overall, it was fun to watch as long as one did not take Star Trek too seriously. Honestly, who among us can read or hear the phrase, "Oh, Mr. Vulcan?", and not crack a smile?

So, once in a while, Voyager and Janeway pulled off some amazingly impossible feats? For those of you who are not aware, please check these out and I am quite sure some things will suddenly become clear to you, lol

MSFC - Teh LolPictures

MSFC - Teh LolPictures

MSFC - Teh LolPictures

 

[Ryderstorm]

Basicly the way I look at Voyager, DS9, TNG, TOS, and ENTERPISE is different for each show.

TOS had a very basic plot that didnt have much of a story arc..in other words it was ment to bring a new story to facinate viewers every week while at the same time trying to open peoples minds to new ideas in a subtle way by presenting it in a futuristic format. The only issue I have with TOS is that for startfleet to have such dumb and dispensable security officers (redshirts) seemed uterly rediculous for me...But I guess in the future even the dumb have their uses I guess. Another thing about that show was it revolved around a hero who held the "hero" qualities that people sought after durring when the show was created. So things like womanizing and charm were in large quantities which I found sickening at times.

TNG for me seemed to carry on what TOS was trying to acomplish. The thing that differed was that the hero of that show did not always win all his battles. He had shortcummings. I think a major overall plot of that show was to show that even with all kinds of fancy tech that makes our lives so much easier, that its not a persons tools who make him great but the person himself who makes himself great.

DS9 intially tried to carry on what TNG had done but with a slighly darker twist. Then as a reflection of current times in real life the writers decided to darken the show more. A large part of DS9s plot was to attract people with glamourous yet gritty imagery. Weather it be Sisko bringing the Romulans into the war via deception or showing large scale space battles or any multitude of other scenes in that series, it was ment to attract people more. It also attempted to make the Heros look more like ordinary people than the preveious incarnations of trek.

VOYAGER....hmmm.....voyager had its strengths and weaknesses just like the other series....I think that one plot of the show that failed miserably was Janeways reflections on weather she would strand her crew in the delta quandrant again or not if given the chance to do things over again. I never really got the answer form watching the show. For me this left me with strong doubts about the "hero" of the show. I think in theory it is a good concept however the presentation of it just didnt work for me. I think that combined with the plot of nothing will stop this ship from going home pretty much left me with a sour taste in my mouth. The best storys in voyager seem to be the ones that were short as in only one episode long. Anything that had multiple epsiode arcs just seem to turn sour...especially the story arc of Seska.....

ENTERPRISE....I never figured out anything about enterprise other than poorly written...and I feel the production is a blemish to the Trek franchise....

Now with me saying all of that......

Plot Protection....

The story is what matters...in other words the outcome justifies the means to acheive it. Its not required to be plausable or undoubtable. Storys are not bound to rules of law where u have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt etc..

Something that is great about fiction is you can create any means to reach your outcome...

Good fiction leaves you with a satisfying outcome weather its good or bad for the charecters. The story always comes first. Unfortunately in trek and in all television or movies or even print somebody will doubt the means. I think for the case of all non fiction how is not as important as why. Writers always strugle with this.

Oh and if something is integral to the story such as the U.S.S Enterprise etc...then of course its gonna survive everything until that prop is no longer needed for the story. Its just a tool basicly. A tool to help tell the story....

If you use your Torque wrench everyday your not gonna just through it in the trash are you?......are you?....