Mod technical terms

[Timothyjmcneeley]

I hope so.

 

[Dan1025]

I'm sure if you stick at it then it will be

 

[Timothyjmcneeley]

Alright, back to topic then. Am I the only one who wonders what some tech terms mean? C'mon people, I know some of you are wondering as well.

 

[Majestic]

I have been modding the games since 2000 so there isn't anything really new for me, the most I can do is to do my best to share my knowledge.

 

[Dan1025]

Same from me, although I started later than 2000.

 

[Timothyjmcneeley]

Don't worry about it anymore. I'm getting furious and fed-up with it. I can't fiqure out how to make anything work. I got the sphere on MS3D but I have no idea what to do next, and I can't find the answers. I checked the BBOM, A2files, the internet, and even the websites these came from. :x

Forget it, not my cup of tea...I'll just play the game.

 

[Syf]

Sorry, been busy working...

Modeling with Milkshape: 1)Start with the tutorals. 2) Ask questions of the peers and pros. 3) practice, practice, practice 4) Never give up!

There are a ton of things for you to learn about Milkshape. What each button and function does, etc. Get your basics down first. The simple stuff such as the UI is more important that most realise. When going into modeling, make siple objects first. A box, then a cup, then move to the more complex objects. And as Majestic has said, it takes some time before you can start producing modding/gaming grade models. But I can assure you, Milkshape is as simple as it gets.

I have been modding games since the mid '90s, Modeling since about '99, and working on new original games since '04.

 

[Majestic]

Syf is correct, it takes time. Plus you can do more than simply making models in MS3D.

Try and import some SFC3 models (from battleclinic or sfc3files) and convert them to A2. Just remember about poly counts, but if you're only doing it for learning it really doesn't matter.

Hardpointing is a good thing to learn, many modellers hate to hardpoint, as it is very teadious. If you can learn that (hardpointing) you can offer your services to a modeller who hates to hardpoint and you may find yourself with a partner, like Syf and I have, where the modeller makes the model and textures it and you make it ready for the game by hardpointing it, doing the odf's, and all the other small programming bits.

Another good idea is to make some kitbashes. Kitbasing is mainly what I do in terms of modelling, it's a good may to learn about all the features of the program. There are a few models in YY actually, that are simply kitbases I have made during my time, many won't actually make it into the final game but a few will.

 

[Syf]

I agree with that 100%. As I am personally one of those that rather not mess with hardpoints and coding the ODFs. Don't get me wrong, I can do quite well at the coding and hardpoints, but rather, I just want to move on to the next model once the current one is complete. Matter of fact, here on MSFC, I posted a hardpoint cheat tutorial anyone that models may find useful.

Now one thing I did not mention previously was that Milkshape does not come with all exporters or tools. On the Milkshape home site download section, one may want to download the exporters and tools that are not currently built into the program. When downloading and installing them: Download the file, extract all files except the readme to the milkshape "installed" folder. If you get a message saying there is another copy of the file already, tell it "no" to not replace the more current file. If by some strange resond the time-stamp on the existing file is older than the one you are attempting to install is, then choose "yes" to replace the other file. Be sure Milkshape was closed during the update/installment. If not, simply close milkshape and reopen it. The exporters will appear under the export area, and most all else will appear on the "tools" menu.

 

[Timothyjmcneeley]

Alright, I will go back to the website and download everything one by one and hopefully, I will get everything right.

I just want to build that basic UFO model thats in the BBOM, and it gives literally step by step instructions and I can't even make that work.

I just want to try so hard to help you guys. As you can tell, from answering every single thread that has to do with Yesteryears or Armada 2, That I am willing, eager, and extremely entusastic, about this mod. I'm so desperate to please you guys. And help you guys. I'm trying SO hard. Majestic Privated me yesterday and asked me to stop spamming threads, by giving one or two word answers or by just posting smilies. I'm not trying to, I'm just running out of things to say. It's hard to respond to somebodies response of anothers response. I don't intentionally put threads in the wrong area. I'm really am sorry. I'm willing to bet this is probably in the wrong area too. I just want a copy of the game SOOOO bad. I check this website religiousally once an hour, sometimes more. Obsessiveally checking, "OK did I respond to this thread, how about this one. Have I made Syf laugh today, oh I can't remember. Did I use enought smilies in that last thread??? ETC." I am truelly sorry. And I think the best thing for me to do is step aside for a couple days, give other people a chance to respond, maybe let some new information to be posted. So there would actually be able to "Discuss the latest update."

 

[Rodglas]

You've just to relax Tim, your enthusiam is impressive but just try to remember it takes time, even a lot of time to become a decent modder.

I remember I got so frustrated model making in the beginning that I didn't even try again for months. Patients is going to help you as much as any of us can, trust me.

Just remember to take it slow, try things out, play around with the features of your programs, it will willhelp you learn it.

And good luck,
Rod

 

[Dan1025]

Well put rod, you just have to take things slow and try your best not to get frustrated and put your fist through your monitor lol (something I came close to doing on more than one occassion).

As rod said, patience is key, there is a lurning curve with these sort of things, and I'm sure you'll get it eventually, you certainly seem to have the dedication and determination needed.

 

[Timothyjmcneeley]

I do, but I can't even make 1 stinking UFO that has STEP BY STEP instructions on how to do it.

 

[Amateur]

I do, but I can't even make 1 stinking UFO that has STEP BY STEP instructions on how to do it.

Then don't make it.

Speaking for myself, I hate having something to work to. If someone gave me a tutorial for making (for example) an N-1 starfighter from Episode 1; I could probably follow it and end up with an alright result - but after that I'd never be able to apply those techniques to anything. I like to use a program as I want to.

I like to think that I'm an okay modeller. I can't texture that well and it's taken me close to a year to make a federation ship...but I'm still pushing at it and learning. There were times when I wanted to give up, but I thought no; I'll do this in time.

I never really used Milkshape much for modelling, I could never get on with it. Max is a costly alternative, as is Lightwave. Blender I find hard to use, same as Wings. There are many people that use it, and use it quite well so they're the people you want to talk to.

As soon as I could I bought max and I has got to have been the best buy I've ever made. I love the fluidity of the interface and UVW mapping abilities; not to mention its mental ray renderer. I only use Milkshape for hardpointing now - and that is something I could do without

You don't need a degree in art or design to use these programs, just willingness to learn, some time and a bit of patience. Having these three will go a long way to you making and releasing your first mesh.

 

[Majestic]

Majestic Privated me yesterday and asked me to stop spamming threads, by giving one or two word answers or by just posting smilies. I'm not trying to, I'm just running out of things to say. It's hard to respond to somebodies response of anothers response. I don't intentionally put threads in the wrong area. I'm really am sorry. I'm willing to bet this is probably in the wrong area too. I just want a copy of the game SOOOO bad. I check this website religiousally once an hour, sometimes more. Obsessiveally checking, "OK did I respond to this thread, how about this one. Have I made Syf laugh today, oh I can't remember. Did I use enought smilies in that last thread??? ETC." I am truelly sorry. And I think the best thing for me to do is step aside for a couple days, give other people a chance to respond, maybe let some new information to be posted. So there would actually be able to "Discuss the latest update."

Spamming is having nothing to say but posting anyway. While we conduct ourself as members as its how we like to run the site please remember our first job is to Administrate the site to keep it running smoothly. Spamming and flames really drive people away from sites as no one wants to go through a 25 page thread and to find half of the posts there to be simple spam.

All we ask is that when you post, post something meaningful not just smilies or single word posts. Smilies are there to displace emotion in your posts, as once can't see emotion in the written word and posts aren't like stories or novels where the writer writes down what emotions the characters are having at the given time.

We however appreciate your support on our project, it's quite refereshing to see there are still a few out there that are still looking forward to YY and it has actually helped us really get back into full scale production again. I myself would touch it like once a week at best, now I am doing something on it every day. I have hardpointed more models in the last week or two than I have in the last 2-3 months, I have only done early work on the physics and modifying the weapon systems trying to get real TMP looking phasers for the Federation and just last night I kitbashed two Terran map unit ships that will feature in the campaign. So don't think your support is unwelcomed, we do really appreicate support and feedback from everyone who has posted in our projects section.

As for forum sections, look on the forum home page, it has detailed descriptions for what should be posted in each area, if ever in double PM someone, weather a member or a staff member I am sure whoever you ask will know where you need to post the thread.

As for helping people out, that is a very worthwhile cause, but do remember that Syf and I have made it our goal to produce the mod by ourselves. Together we both have the necessary skills to bring it to life and we find it easier to work as a pair instead as a group as them updating each persons copy becomes difficult. But there are many mod groups out there looking for talent, and many people who are doing mods by themselves.

Might I suggest you learn to hardpoint, I said this earlier but both Syf and Amateur have have comment on not liking to do it. Perhaps if you can learn to do it, which isn't hard (MAP has a tutorial on A2Files and Syf has a cheat method tutorial here which I use myself). When you get the hang of it, post in the A2 section both here and on A2files offering your services, I am sure someone will jump at the chance, perhaps even ask Amateur here, as he is making his Clone Assault mod which I do believe he is doing my himself.

I like to think that I'm an okay modeller. I can't texture that well and it's taken me close to a year to make a federation ship...but I'm still pushing at it and learning. There were times when I wanted to give up, but I thought no; I'll do this in time.

You are a pretty good modeller actually, you are like the only modeller I know that I had to ask to raise the poly count on models cause you are that good a low poly model making.

 

[Syf]

TMC: I understand what your feeling. I was just like you back in the day. I started modeling back in mid-late '99. But it was not easy. There was not much in the form of help like in tutorials and such. I actually gave up on it for some time (well, I think 2 and a half years later, after A2 was released, then I started getting interested in it again). I got back to it. and slowly, I started to get the hang of it. I made an effort to conquer the modeling program. I looked toward every source I could. Eventually, I started getting it on my own. But to be honest, I had problems even as I pat myself on the back for the long road I've travelled in the quest to become a modeler. It was a long road for me, make no mistake about that. I've only considered myself a modeler since '03-'04. But I am still not on par with the likes of Aceman and the gang over on Scifi-meshes. I've only worked to become a game modeler.

Now, about your quest... What did I said, hmmm?

If you are having trouble with something, ask.... Ask the members via the forums, even ask me. I really hope to see you achieve your goal. I bet if you hang in there, we can help you become a modeler in a much shorter time than it took me. But it all depends on you.

Give me a couple weeks.... I will see about completing my Milkshape tutorial. Since it seems I have at least one person now that would use it.

 

[Dan1025]

Give me a couple weeks.... I will see about completing my Milkshape tutorial. Since it seems I have at least one person now that would use it.

I assure you there will be more than one

 

[Syf]

Well thank you. I hope I can piece it together right. My goal is to cover several things people just don't know, both from a beginner level to the moderate modeler. When complete, a user should be able to complete a moderately complex model without saying "what"...

 

[Dan1025]

Sounds great I look forward to it and I'm sure it will help out a lot of people.

 

[Syf]

I already have 40% of it done, I just have to finish it. Ask Majestic, this is a long time project I started almost 2 years ago.

 

[Majestic]

Indeed, its something I will also use to get a bit better at modelling. He did start it a few years ago, but like me Syf has so much on that it gets put to the backburner.

We are so much alike in ways like that.

 

[Timothyjmcneeley]

I want to thank you all for your inspiring words. And I want to apologize for my behavior lately. I tend to get a little obsessive, about certain things that interest me. Unfortnuatly I suffer from OCD and it tends to get in my way. When I get my mind set on something, I tend to take it to the extreme. Don't ask about my paintball habit. Luckly I'm also obsessive about my son, so thankfully I put him first.

I look forward to Syf's tutorial. I understand that it takes time to do this (taking years to do YY) and patience is a virtu, how ever you spell it. I never realised the two of you purely planned this project yourselves.

I will see into HP, any suggestion on programs for that?

I am honored that my entuiastem, as well as everyone elses, has inspired you to proceed with this project. That there makes me happy.

Now getting back to topic, Majestic, you said to Amatuer that sometimes you had to ask him to INCREASE his poly count. Now I know from earlier, that if Polies are to high, itg can cause the game serious lag, but why does it matter if it is to low. How do you check your polies and find out how many you have. What is considered to high/to low. What EXACTLY is a poly?

 

[Borg_Queen]

The more polies, the more detailed and realistic looking is the vessel. That is what I know.

 

[Syf]

Obsession over things is not always a bad thing. It's only about self-control.

OCD actually could be helpful toward an end-goal such as mastering modeling in 3D. So hang tight, as soon as I complete about 12 models for YY, I will be able to focus on getting that tutorial made.

 

[Majestic]

Now getting back to topic, Majestic, you said to Amatuer that sometimes you had to ask him to INCREASE his poly count.

Now I know from earlier, that if Polies are to high, itg can cause the game serious lag, but why does it matter if it is to low. How do you check your polies and find out how many you have. What is considered to high/to low. What EXACTLY is a poly?

It doesn't really matter, I just wanted a little more detail in the models, and considering he did an excellent job of keeping them down he had a lot to play with. With PAR I set a max poly count for the models (divided into class like frigate, light cruiser, starbase etc), I had 3-4 modellers working with me on that mod before it was put on hold and Amaetur was one of them.

As for what a poly is, Syf explained it a little earlier in this thread if I recall, going back a few pages and you will find it.

As for what is considered high and low, everyone has their own opinion on that. It also depends on the model in question. Is there going to be heaps of them or only a few.

My idea is that anything 2500 or more is considered high for Armada 2 (ship wise). Armada 1 it's more like 1500-2000 as it's older and can't run as much detail on screen.

Now stations, they aren't built as often as ship, for obvious reasons so one can have them higher in poly count. I have always thought that 3000 should be around the max a station should be, though I do like it if they are 2500 or less. Some stations are built more than others so one has to keep that in mind when making a model, as shipyards and turrets are built more that research stations or starbases.

If you try to stick to 2000 for most your models like many modellers do then you should be fine.

 

[Atlantis]

The more polies, the more detailed and realistic looking is the vessel. That is what I know.

This isn't always correct, actually More often than not, it's better to just add details to the texture, instead of adding polies to the model. That way you get a better result with no lag at all.

A lot of people say "well, my computer's good enough to handle the extra polies", but even so, what's the point? The ship's only gonna be 2 inches long onscreen anyway.

Plus, it takes a lot more skill to balance these things, how to manage adding the details to the texture, etc. That's why I always push for this, as it can improve the quality of the modder's work, and therefore make a better modder. :-D

 

[Timothyjmcneeley]

Ok that answers that.

Now on another thread, Majestic said he needed to frap something while him and Syf beta test the FINAL project.

What is a Frap?

 

[Borg_Queen]

Fraps is a program that you can use to take video of your gameplay and you can also use it to take screenshots.

 

[Timothyjmcneeley]

Ahhh, thats why I never heard of it. It's an illegal (banned) program on my MMORPG game I play. Where would I aquire such said program.

 

[Syf]

It's not an illegal program... maybe banned (though I don't see why anyone would ban recording one's own screen). Fraps is a simple desktop recording program, just a bit more advanced than the screen-capture/print-screen functions built into windows. I do recommend one has plenty of RAM when using a program to record videos from whats on your screen.

Fraps is not a free program mind you. Currently costs $37. They allow people to test it out with a typical trial period, in which one can record upto 30 seconds, and embeds a watermark on the top of the videos. The full paid version doesn't have these limits or watermarks.
click here for their website