Losing Our Birthing Rights

[Katala]

This is the first of many freedoms women in Australia are starting to lose, how long before we lose all our rights and freedoms and go back to the stone age when men ruled everything a woman did?

Our Government are now taking away our choices for birthing our own babies, no longer will we be able to *choose* our primary carer, no longer will we be able to *choose* where we give birth, whether it be hospital, birthing centre or at home etc.

Our rights as women, mothers and medical professionals are being taken away from us just because 1: the government is too lazy or arrogant to give midwives medical indemnity insurance and 2: they feel threatened because women actually prefer a home birth to being in a cold hospital where we are just numbers and pushed through as fast as they possibly can to make way for the next patient instead of given the care and attention we need!

Here is a snippet from an Australian website showing some of the changes taking place:

Birthing women of Australia will lose their right to choose both their caregiver and their place of birth as of July 2010. Midwives will not be allowed to attend homebirths due to new national registration of health professionals that requires professional indemnity insurance which is currently unavailable to midwives. The Australian Government has made this decision without consideration of birthing women.

Despite an overwhelming 53% response to the Maternity Services Review advocating more accessible homebirth services, the outcome of the review takes publicly funded homebirth off the agenda and, as a result, makes homebirth with a midwife illegal.

In July 2009 a Senate Inquiry was held into the Bills being proposed. Nearly 2000 public submissions were received and though the Senate came out in support of homebirth, they have decided to recommend passing the bills anyway stating that the outlawing of midwife assisted homebirth is an "unintentional consequence" of the new registration system.

In September 2009 over 3000 men and women congregated at Parliament House in Canberra to protest these changes. Two days prior this this Nicola Roxon announced a 2 year exemption for midwives attending homebirths pushing the date of enforcement back to July 2012.

On the 5th of November 2009, the Government then announced that for midwives to work in private practice beyond July 2010, they must work in collaborative care arrangements with private Obstetricians or private Obstetric General Practitioners. The amendment to the "Medicare for Midwives" Bill effectively gives these Doctors power to veto the decisions of midwives and mothers leaving midwives uninsured and practicing illegally if they do not abide by the Doctors ruling.

In Australia, you can choose the hospital you wish to birth in and you can choose your private Obstetrician if this is the route you choose to go. Homebirth with a midwife is the only avenue that allows a medical practitioner to over-rule your decision and that of your choosen primary caregiver.

For more information you can find it here Save Birthing Choices

 

[thunderfoot]

And here I thought all this time stupidity in elected lawmakers was a strictly US sort of thing.

 

[dinosaurJR]

And here I thought all this time stupidity in elected lawmakers was a strictly US sort of thing.

He he! I think you'll find that the natural habitat of the stupid bureucrat (sp?) is in fact the EU... Brussels in particular... Trust me, Im there now...

But Katala - that is bad news - and surely a breach of basic civil liberty. You are told where and how you are to give birth... not cool.

 

[Borg_Queen]

That's not good news, Katala. Why women can't decide for themselves is beyond me.

He he! I think you'll find that the natural habitat of the stupid bureucrat (sp?) is in fact the EU... Brussels in particular... Trust me, Im there now...

Or more correct; Norway is not part of EU, yet EU has a tendency to decide over Norway. And yes; Many, if not all of EU's laws, are stupid.

 

[CABAL]

In most cases, you'll find that the laws that benefit one group (in this case hospitals) while doing nothing or even hurting other groups are the result of lobbyists. With lobbyists your elected representatives are less likely to actually represent you and more likely to represent the people behind the lobbyists.

 

[Ryderstorm]

Indeed this is bad news. Unfortunately this kind of political garbage is going on all over the world at the same time.

I could ramble on for hours and hours about all the "stupid" decisions that elected or apointed legislaters make "for the people". Now there are 2 posibilities for these STUPID peices of legislations to be passed.

1. Our lawmakers of which most have gone thru a prestigious and intense education truly are stupid.

OR

2. The wealthy are taking control of EVERY aspect of the adverage persons daily life on a global scale.

I wont go into detail as I dont want to be writing a 53 page long post on the "globalization" and "war on the middle class". The simple fact is unless citizens seize and hold their own power government will just walk all over them. Im not advocating anarchy by no means Im just saying that the vast majority of people have become to complacent and unconcerned with what governments do. Now in the U.S. right now people have been forming news circles and tea parties and protests which grow in numbers every week however most the media either ignores it or sensationalize it to the point of being truly unbeliveable. I just hope that more people wake up and stand up for their rights as human beings. Not just in the U.S. but for everybody all over the world. I think its about time we removed the corporations and private investors from public government and get back to being FOR THE PEOPLE!!!

Any day where a person or entity takes away another persons human rights is a dark day indeed.

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

This is worse than the healthcare "reform" in the USA. Where they are trying to make it that if the government decides you "qualify" for the new government health care. You would have to take it or face fines and/or imprisonment........Here is to hope that both country's leaders change thier minds.

 

[Hellkite]

Frog it not our place to comment on current political affairs given that we are subject to UCMJ

Spoiler: UCMJ

Article 88 prohibit:


Article 88, which says, "Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the secretary of Defense, the secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."

This does not apply to enlisted personnel.

but
Article 134, known as the catch-all article, makes criminal those acts of speech that are prejudicial to good order and discipline or that could bring discredit upon the Armed Forces. This is pretty broad and explains why it is often called the catch-all article. If your chain of command thinks your political involvement has affected your unit or the military, you could be punished under this article.

This is the reason I will not post on political post nor voice my View in public forms

 

[Paul]

Most of the laws they are trying to pass are plain stupid, ive heard of a number of truely pathetic ones and several that are in the works so this isnt new.
Best thing to do is raise awareness so that when they have to decide they will know what to expect, then again some goverments do it for their own good anyway.

This will proberly be shot down when news spreads, no one will accept there civil rights being taken away so easily.

 

[Katala]

I've posted this to all my friends over facebook as well and quite alot of them are in an uproar as child birth is a womans right and if we are to go through that pain and suffering surely we should be able to choose *how* we do it I've told Maj if it passes I'm either going to still have a ghome birth in the future or move overseas to give birth so at least then I can do it how I want to not how the Dr's/government want me to lol it really is a joke the way they are going about this, stupid really the way one human being thinks they can control another no matter what the subject is about the human race will always find a way around it............

 

[EAS_Intrepid]

I don't fully understand why women should not be allowed to give birth at home.

Here women are encouraged to go to a hospital but it is not enforced. The only problem is just, that there are only few midwives who are not working at a hospital and have the time to care for a mother during birth.
Last week I was taught how to assist childbirth. It rarely happens that EMTs have to assist, but you should be familiar with the theory... lol.

The one major advantage of giving birth in a hospital is:
if the child does need immediate life-saving treatment like child-CPR (*shudders*) or "airway managment", like assisted respiration and/or intubation, it can be done best in a clinic where they have all the medical tools.
In case of complications during childbirth a hospital has much more tech available, like X-Ray, MRTs, CTs etc etc

Birthing at home kind of worked for quite a time, yet the suvival rate of new-born children greatly increased after birthing was done at a hospital.

Of course you can evaluate if there will be complications during birth, that's why there are pre-birth examinations of the mother and the child.


On the one hand this law just takes away a bit of the citizen's freedom (here to decide where the child is born) - on the other hand this could also benefit the health of the new-born children.


I think women should be encouraged to go to a hospital, but they should not be forced to do so.

EA
*never wants to encounter young children needing CPR"

 

[Katala]

I totally agree EAS, admittedly some women are pretty stupid in that even though have been clinically proven to be at high risk of complications they still want a home birth and in this circumstance it is quite understandable for the law, but for those of us who have very low risk, our birthing rights should not be taken away.

There is also the current choice for women over a certain age to have an amniocentesis done at 11weeks of pregnancy, this test carries a risk of miscarriage and for those women who have a high risk of miscarriage already and have gone through IVF currently choose not to have this test, if this legislation is passed they will have no choice but to have the test and risk miscarriage and have to spend a fortune trying to get pregnant again, some women needs 4-5 tries through IVF before finally falling pregnant and being forced to have that test can be rather daunting if it is going to cost them so much in which case those women may decide not to reproduce and in effect reducing the currently declining population even more.

 

[dinosaurJR]

That's not good news, Katala. Why women can't decide for themselves is beyond me.



Or more correct; Norway is not part of EU, yet EU has a tendency to decide over Norway. And yes; Many, if not all of EU's laws, are stupid.

I know Norway isnt part of the EU - I was actually in Brussels at the time I posted...Im an international business man...

It is a shame that this is happening - But, isnt it sexual discrimination? Fair enough a guy cant give birth, but the govt. cant TELL him to go to hospital if he needs treatment, do they? This is an infringment on your civil liberties... It is your body, after all...

 

[Ryderstorm]

Civil liberties only apply to the wealthy anymore Im afraid. We must do everything within our power to voice our concerns and issues. It is a good thing people are organizing protests and petitions. But we need greater numbers. Citizens are just numbers to the government and statistics to the corperations. what we need to do is inflate those numbers exponentialy so that our duly elected representatives will have no choice but to capitulate to the will of the people. It will be interesting to see what becomes of this copenhagen summit thing in regards to the envirorment and to civil liberties and to general welfare. We are at a point now in our history where what happens in one country does have an impact on other countries. Weather it be idealogical or political. Even something as simple as this birthing right can and most likely will cross over to other countries.

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

Frog it not our place to comment on current political affairs given that we are subject to UCMJ

Spoiler: UCMJ

Article 88 prohibit:


Article 88, which says, "Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the secretary of Defense, the secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."

This does not apply to enlisted personnel.

but
Article 134, known as the catch-all article, makes criminal those acts of speech that are prejudicial to good order and discipline or that could bring discredit upon the Armed Forces. This is pretty broad and explains why it is often called the catch-all article. If your chain of command thinks your political involvement has affected your unit or the military, you could be punished under this article.

This is the reason I will not post on political post nor voice my View in public forms

Guess I am still safe then. I'm not an officer and what I said was no harm to the Military. But understood.

 

[thunderfoot]

If you turn over the paving stones which line the road to,...well, you know where I am speaking of, don't you? Every single one of them has the words "Good Intentions" stamped upon it.

This is one of those things which seems a good idea when presented. After all, who can reasonably deny a newborn or his/her mother the best possible prenatal/postnatal care? No sensible person would do this, would they? But upon further reflection, this is an opening which could allow the State to decide a great many things about your body, could it not? To the point where the government could decide for you about nearly any medical procedure or treatment regimen for a disease or condition you may have.

Including denying treatment for the aforementioned condition or disease.

Suppose you participated in a public protest which disagreed with public policy about, say, greenhouse gases. Would the government have the ability to deny you treatment unless and until you agreed with their policy? Suppose your condition was life threatening and the medication and treatment for it was painful and expensive and was not going to do anything at all but extend your existence, instead of improving your quality of life?

BTW, people. this is not a new idea nor is it implausible. The government of most countries in the world already has the legal right to do these things to you and for you. whether you want them done or not.

We all fuss about politicians and other public personages. Why? A member of Congress, or the Austalian Parliment, or your local council is there because you did not speak up when you had the opportunity. At the ballot box. And politicians resemble a fence post turtle at this point. Ever seen a turtle on a fence post?

1) It did not get up there by itself.
2) It does not know what it is doing there.
3) It does not how to get down.
4) It will thrash wildly about and probably cause harm to itself or others.
5) It would not be there at all unless someone other than itself put it there in the first place.

 

[Ryderstorm]

TF you said it very well. You outlined the potential ramifacations quite well but I do have to disagree with you on one point.

The ballot boxes seldome count anymore. In my home state alone for both of the "bush victories" there was found to be rampid election fraud on the electronic touch screen voting machines where they displayed whatever ballot you cast however only recorded votes for republicans. I dont site this example to cast blame towards any party because republicans democrats independents and conservatives and green party are all the same really. I just use that as example. In the last US presedential election I asked for a paper ballot and was refused. So then I asked to see the printed ballot from my electronic ballot. I was told they couldnt do that. See what they did is placed a locking mechanism on the lil door you could lift to see the printout. So in other words I was denied access to verify my ballot. Now thankfully in the last local election where we used the exact same machines with one exception. The lock mechanism on the print out door was removed. Now how sweet is that???? I opened that door up and and shabang it actually recorded my votes corectly!!!

Anyways what it matter what face is in political office.....most of the people with real power are apointed anyways or installed under the guise of an election. This needs to change. As Obama said ITS TIME FOR A CHANGE.

I have no issues with globalization per-se.....what I do have issue with is when hard working middle class citizens of most nations now are under attack by their very own government. First the mortgage crisis then the banking colaspe..now its going to be thru healthcare.

 

[Katala]

Unfortunately governments think that they can control the world and that will never change no matter who is in charge.

Sorry guys I'm locking this thread to discontinue any possible future flame wars about how unjust our political system is. I know you guys werent/wouldnt but who knows, someone may come along and start one later

I do agree with all your points and opinions though

I will be watching the birthing coices website further to see the progress of what is happening and with any luck it doesnt get passed, if it does I'm moving overseas when it gets time to give birth