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The Future of Babylon 5?

Amateur

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Short of a remaster (as mentioned by (I think) Majestic above) the only other logical way I can see this going is via a reboot (like they've done with Trek). Whether they follow the same story or not I wouldn't know (though for it to 'be' Babylon 5, they kind of would need to stick to the script.

The problem with that though, is they then run the risk of ruining the original. Maybe it's time to let it rest?

I could get behing a reboot on one condition: JMS doing the script, directing and whatever he wants.

I think B5 needs its creator, unlike the Trek or BSG remakes, simply because he envisioned the whole series. He wanted the five season arc, he didn't waste time trying to make money or anything after - he had the plot and universe planned. If a studio is left to it they could do crazy things. They need to give him full control for as long as he wants, not a season by season deal, or we could end up with a Firefly again, where a brilliant program is cut short.

But I think I have to agree that the risk is quite strong that they'd ruin it, or at the very least cloud the memories and create confusion. I know Sheridan, Garibaldi, Londo Mollari, and Delenn - I don't want to think 'wait, that's who's playing Sheridan?'

In essence, they could just use all the old scripts with a new cast and CGI; but even then I think that the original should stand. They can add - if it's done well - but not replace.
 
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StarBlade

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There wouldn't technically be a Sheridan in the reboot. There would be a Sinclair.

To say nothing of whether Lyta Alexander and the other doctor and XO from the original "In the Beginning" crew would be included in a reboot.

No, I like the "General Ivanova" idea. If only because I have a huge and long-standing crush on Susan Ivanova, my perfect woman.

I like the "let it rest" idea even better, though. Just like I would've preferred that option to the 2009 Trek film, but I'm guessing Majestic wouldn't want me engaging in that little off-topic bit. I don't want them cranking out more B5 just because there's interest in the wider fan community for there to be more B5. Even with B5, there's no guarantee that we'll be happy with more. And I'd be quite upset if it turned out like the fifth season, for instance.
 

CABAL

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Yeah, but the fifth season wasn't planned like that originally. JMS was told that the show would be cancelled after the fourth season so he crammed the planned season 5 into the second half of season 4, then they un-cancelled the show so he had to come up with something on the fly for season 5, hence it focusing on the aftermath and filler. Then of course Crusade had so much network interference that he couldn't do anything his way or even air the episodes in the intended order. At least Lost Tales turned out good, even if they did fewer episodes than intended.
 

Atlantis

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A reboot? Oh god no, please.

Babylon 5 was one story, beginning to end, already written when it started. To keep tacking bits on to it would diminish from itsself, and a reboot would either seem repetitive or ruin itself or the original.

Then again, reboot did work for BSG... but I wouldn't like to see it for B5.

I would like to see something B5-related, but in a different era, to keep it as separate as possible. Maybe something of Earth's first forays into the neighbourhood, battles with the Raiders, Koulani, Ch'Lonas, etc...
 
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StarBlade

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reboot did work for BSG...

After the fact, and before it ended, I'd agree. There was a high point right around the time of mid-season 3 for BSG where its acclaim, both from its fan-base and TV critics, was almost TNG-like. The last season really crippled, if not destroyed, whatever legacy BSG could've had. Now people say, "yeah, it was great, but...." and qualify it in ways.

That being said, I can distinctly recall the days before it aired, when the changes with Boomer, Starbuck, the role of the President, the new Galactica model, the Cylons having "skinjob" versions, and basically all of that, was still a hugely contentious thing to discuss in fan circles. People were fierce. YouTube-comment paper-tiger ferocity to be sure, shielded by the sort of anonymous idiocy that gives us PotD 1-voters and trolls of all forms. There was a division between the "wait & see" types who were simply happy their favourite universe had a new incarnation, and the utterly vicious attack-dog types who were convinced nothing good would come of it. Until it did. And then those who were loudest in the 'haters' camp either blended away or found themselves reversing their positions and falling in love. I had to live through all that having never seen the original BSG and having no idea what people thought was so great about it. For its time I'm sure it was awesome but the reboot eventually made brilliant, must-see television, at least, until that last season.

Even TNG had its haters, at the time. I recall reading online somewhere that George Takei referred to "The Naked Now" (TNG) as being 'like watching children dressed up in their parents' clothing' or something equally derisive. Now we all make fun of the first season because it got so much better. We also have Voyager and Enterprise to belittle because they made too much of a good thing and squeezed the lemons dry.

That's what worries me about B5. It's not the fan venom or the potential for JMS to blow it-- the former no longer concerns me and I trust JMS implicitly in his own universe to do right by it, and by us. What concerns me is, as CABAL made reference to earlier, some sort of fifth-season style flameout that makes us wondering what we bothered for. Frankly I think the fourth season worked that much better for having accelerated the five-year plan into four. But that's the thing: the cycle is complete, in my mind. The story of the last of the Babylon stations has been told, and told well despite the wooden acting and ridiculous CGI. It's made its influence and it's really a wonderful story, with memorable and brilliantly written characters, and a sweeping saga that truly deserves the term 'epic'.

But we've seen too many false starts and missed opportunities already, as good as some parts (like Crusade and the Lost Tales) have been. And I don't know if I'm willing to give my heart to B5 for another spin, only to have it broken again, y'know?
 

Avon

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Well, it seems we may not have to wait too much longer. JMS has said that an announcement will be made before Comicon (which I believe starts on 21st), which he is attending with Pat Tallman.
So we should know something definate in the next couple of weeks:thumbsup:

Edit: Interestingly I've just noticed the B5 facebook page seems to have been taken over by Warner Brothers. Not sure when this took place, but it certainly was not run by them in the past. Definately things are afoot!
 

Majestic

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I hope we see something new and exciting come from this even a bunch of TV movies would make me happy. Perhaps even one revolving around Babylon 4 and it's role in the last great war would be interesting.

Keep us updated Avon, I am really looking forward to this. :)
 

Avon

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This just mentioned courtesy of Jan Shroeder, (moderator at JMSnews) who's at Comicon in San Diego.
Jan said:
Yes, there was a B5 thing in negotiations (yes, good budget - yes, full season commitment, yes, creative control) for a new distribution system but that venue never materialized.

BUT - after this, JMS went to them and said that if they weren't going to do A, B & C, let him do D, E & F. So there are negotiations going on but nothing he can talk about in detail.
 
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thunderfoot

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I dunno. I find myself ambivalent about a 'new' B5. I was only a very occasional fan (Bester FTW!) and I never really dove off into it the way so many so obviously have. So my opinion may not count for much. I'd say leave it alone. The story as it stands now is complete and finished. Why muck around with it for no other reason than we can? Reboots done well can be fun. Reboots done poorly can be garbage. And why get on the reboot wagon at all? why not do as Star Trek has done? Same background setting, different characters, different set of challenges. One of the things I did notice about B5 was the huge amount of backstories and hsitory which only got a casual mention once in awhile. Seems to me, fleshing some of those out into full fledged episodes or even feature films would be the way to go.

One of the things we all tend to forget is there really is not a lot of great science fiction available in films or on television. There is a whole lot of things which are perfectly awful but we watch them anyway in the hopes(always vain) they will get better. On balance, B5 was and is one of the very few really good science fiction tv series. I hope someone is smart enough to leave it this way.
 

Avon

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Latest post from JMS on Facebook. So it was going to be a reboot, I'm kinda glad that didn't happen to be honest. Still, at least there are still some negotiations going on for something else
JMS said:
Re: B5...the studio offered a full season of a new and rebooted B5 as part of a new distribution venue they were creating (us and several other shows from the same studio were part of the same deal). We'd have a full season, a big budget, and total creative control. The negotiations (not between us but between the participants of the venue) dragged on for over a year, we were told repeatedly this is going to happen, but finally, the participants couldn't make the math work. So we and the other three shows that they were hoping to put out there got set aside.

At this point, I've told the studio that if this isn't going to move ahead, there's something else they need to consider and there's a very informal negotiation going on now in that regard. We'll see where it goes from there.

But again, B5 was never created to be a Deep Space Franchise, we wanted to do our 5 years and get out clean. That was my intent going into this, and if that's where this ends up, I'm happy to stick with that.
 

Majestic

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I too do not want to see a reboot, a revamp of the CGI perhaps but that is all. I would much rather see some new stories set in a different timeframe to B5, perhaps the Centauri War, Dilgar War or some other important B5 timeframe event.

Again many thanks Avon for keeping us updated, I really appreciate the regular updates you post for us. :)
 
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StarBlade

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So if they wanted to do five years and get out clean, and made it through four years telling the story before things got ugly, why can't we just leave it at that? B5 doesn't need re-telling. The version we got may not age well, nor is it exactly top-billing casting to get Chekov and the guy from Tron as your big name actors, but WHO CARES? I loved B5 more because they told such a great story with so little budget and so little flash. What makes them think that I want the same story again or a variation upon it? As Majestic said --I'd rather a new story in the universe than a reboot. It's less than twenty years old. It'd be like rebooting Farscape or Stargate. I really want to trust JMS with his own universe, but I hear news like this and it isn't easy to do!
 

Avon

The older I get, the more I forget
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Well, JMS has given a couple of interviews now about the so-called 'reboot' that has now been cancelled (thank god).
But it seems that any other talks he mentioned are a looooooong way off yet. And to be honest, from what he is saying lately, it looks like any new B5 in the future will take the shape of a reboot or 're-imagining' like Battlestar did. There will be no continuation of the story as we knew it:cry2:

Someone started asking him some questions about the reboot on Facebook, and he took offence. This was his reply:
JMS said:
Doran, the reason I asked the question -- and if you come in here loaded for bear and start throwing around assumptions without a shred of actual, specific information you deserve the reply you get -- is that I wanted to see if you had an i...nformed opinion or if you had no idea what the hell you were talking about. It's the latter.

If you or anyone else thinks that I'm going to simply redo the exact same story (your accusation) in the same way," same characters, same start point" (your words again)...that person is an idiot. There would be no point. Zero, none, nada.

Take G'Kar, for instance. In my notes, there is no new character named G'Kar because for my money, no one else can ever BE G'Kar, so G'Kar is a religious figure, a legend, not unlike G'Quon. Did you know that? No. Why? Because you don't have the freaking pages in front of you and you're acting like a hysteric.

Despite what some folks say, the fact is that saying "reboot" is like saying "science fiction," it means what you're pointing at, and there are all kinds of permutations of what that means. It (and remember we're talking about something that is not currently on the boards) can't be a straight-ahead sequel because the market can't sustain it when the show hasn't been on the air in the US in over a decade. That's never, ever going to fly. It can't be called Babylon 5 if there isn't a place called Babylon 5, so the station has to be in existence, otherwise you can't use that name. You could do a show about the telepath war, but you couldn't call it Babylon 5 unless there's a Babylon 5 there, otherwise it'll confuse the hell out of new audiences (oh, that's named for a station that used to be there in another series you never saw).

The challenge I set for myself in this is very simple: knowing what I know now, having grown a lot as a writer since 1992 (or for that matter the late 80s when I started writing the pilot), having the experience of the original show in what worked and what didn't, and with all the technology available to us now that wasn't there in 1992, if I were to put the show together right now, what would it look like? That, for my money, is what a reboot is.

So no, I don't like it when you come in here, Doran, and make baseless accusations about something you actually know nothing at all about. You made a direct statement that I was going to do the same thing in the same way with the same characters all over again, and that has NOTHING to do with what I have (or had) in mind.

You ask a smart-alec question, you get a smart-alec response. If you come in loaded for bear don't expect me to be a stationary target for your comments. And don't hide behind the "well, fans have a right to know" thing because I've been keeping the fans accurately in the know for decades. I respect the fans too much to do otherwise. The poor behavior is yours for making an accusation that had nothing to do with facts. Yes, fans have a right to speculate, and should, but when speculation arises, one asks a question, one doesn't come in with an accusation. There's this notion that I've fought for years, that a person can come into a web site or page and be as offensive or patronizing as they want, but if the other person responds in the way ANYONE would respond if you pulled that **** in person, somehow THAT'S the offense. Sorry, I don't buy into the bull****.

If you want to know something, ask a fair question and I'll always provide a fair and reasoned response. I've been doing it since 1992. Act like a jerk, and I'll call you on it every time.

To everyone who is not Doran: we're talking about something that's a moot point at the moment anyway. The discussions I'm having with the studio are business oriented regarding B5 and not in terms of a specific new show or a new project. It may be a year before any of those talks go anywhere. So can we not burn down the town over someting that's not actually being discussed at the moment?
 

Majestic

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It's a real shame about no continuation with the series not fond at all about a reboot, it's seems all networks what to do today they seen to have no interest in new stuff.

Thanks for the update mate, I appreciate you keeping us up to date on this. :thumbsup:
 

CABAL

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Thanks for the update, Avon. I understand his reason for not doing a show in the same continuity since, like he said, the show hasn't been on in quite a while. However, I do feel like that universe still has potential for great stories and I would like to see some of that. On the other hand, then you get into whether or not the new show or movie lives up to what fans have been imagining for the past decade, so maybe it's best to just leave it lay.

On a side note, does JMS remind anybody of Thunder?:lol2:
 
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Avon

The older I get, the more I forget
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Interesting comments from Walter Koenig at a recent Star Trek convention. I suspect this is the negotiations that JMS mentioned. Only owning the movie rights, it looks like he's trying to aquire the full TV rights too. This would be a good thing, and the best chance for any future B5
trekmovie.com said:
Speaking at the Star Trek convention in Las Vegas on Friday, Walter Koenig, who played the Psi Cop Alfred Bester on Babylon 5, said that just last week he had dinner with B5 creator J. Michael Straczynski. And according to Koenig there may be hope for the future of the Babylon 5 franchise. The actor said:


"He told me that he is in negotiations to re-acquire the rights to Babylon 5 and it looks pretty good. Now what that portends I am not entirely sure. It could be a new series or it could be a feature film, but he was quite animated about it. He seemed very excited and Warner Brothers is dealing with him in good faith. So you might see another Babylon 5 in the not too distant future."
 

Majestic

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This is great news thanks Avon. :)
 
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thunderfoot

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...On a side note, does JMS remind anybody of Thunder?:lol2:

Yeah, I know. :lol:

Seems to me all the guy was shoot down a troll. Called it like he saw it. How refreshing. Never met JMS but I like him. The troll infestation of the InterWebs wouldn't be half so bad as it is if more people would do this. And if it can be done where the troll in question can be made out to be the butt of the joke, so much the better.
 

CABAL

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What I meant was, his speech patterns are almost identical to yours and that seemed like the exact same way you would shoot down a troll.

Anyway, great news, Avon, thanks for finding it.
 
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Walternate

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Interesting comments from Walter Koenig at a recent Star Trek convention. I suspect this is the negotiations that JMS mentioned. Only owning the movie rights, it looks like he's trying to aquire the full TV rights too. This would be a good thing, and the best chance for any future B5

Unfortunately, JMS denied that he was in negotiations for B5. While it could be he's required to keep things quiet as part of his deals, it seems more likely that Babylon 5 won't be coming back any time soon.

A pity, because I'd love to see the series brought back, even just an updating of the CGI (the updated scenes in Lost Tales were amazing).
 

Avon

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Firstly, welcome to the site:cool:

Unfortunately, JMS denied that he was in negotiations for B5.
Actually, that's not entirely true. Unless you can tell me where he said this ?.

JMS has already told us that the deal for a new series with WB (the reboot) has fallen through. BUT he is still in negotiations with them over something else B5 related, but it's a long way off.

Walter (being a good friend of JMS, and having had dinner with him the week before), simply clarified that the negotiations JMS was involved in, was to buy the rights.........
He then went on to speculate, that this could mean a new series or film.

JMS simply wanted to nip that rumour (of a new series negotiations) in the bud.
He very specifically did NOT mention anything about Walter's first comment about buying the rights back.

JMS said:
Walter misspoke: I am not in negotiations with WB to develop more Babylon 5

Now, having followed JMS online for about 12 years, you have to learn to read between the lines, and look for what he did not say.
We already know that the deal for a new series with WB is no more, but he very clearly says nothing about buying the rights.

So if, and when, he does aquire the full rights, he could go out and make any series or film he wanted with anyone. Absolutely nothing to do with WB.
 

EAS_Intrepid

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Seems negotiating with WarnerBrothers is more complicated than negotiating a peace treaty in the UN Security Council.
 
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Walternate

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Firstly, welcome to the site:cool:


Actually, that's not entirely true. Unless you can tell me where he said this ?.

JMS has already told us that the deal for a new series with WB (the reboot) has fallen through. BUT he is still in negotiations with them over something else B5 related, but it's a long way off.

Walter (being a good friend of JMS, and having had dinner with him the week before), simply clarified that the negotiations JMS was involved in, was to buy the rights.........
He then went on to speculate, that this could mean a new series or film.

JMS simply wanted to nip that rumour (of a new series negotiations) in the bud.
He very specifically did NOT mention anything about Walter's first comment about buying the rights back.



Now, having followed JMS online for about 12 years, you have to learn to read between the lines, and look for what he did not say.
We already know that the deal for a new series with WB is no more, but he very clearly says nothing about buying the rights.

So if, and when, he does aquire the full rights, he could go out and make any series or film he wanted with anyone. Absolutely nothing to do with WB.


I hadn't thought of it that way... The man's like a real-life Vorlon!
 

Majestic

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Perhaps they/he modelled the Vorlon's off of him. :lol2:
 
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february32nd

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In the middle of the 21st century Humanity entered the interstellar community when we contacted the decadent :) Centauri Republic. A hundred years later we were nearly obliterated by the fanatical Minbari Federation. Weak and broken, we watched in horror as the galaxy tore itself apart in the Great War of 2261. But we had learned our lessons and ended the war when we convinced the ancient powers behind it to take their place beyond the rim of the galaxy. Their servants, the Drakh, were enraged at being made homeless and poisoned the Earth with an intelligent robotic virus as revenge. We had five years to find a cure before the plague killed every living thing on the Earth. In that time we hunted down every last one of the Drakh, and this is the story of how Humanity was saved.
:exter:
That's the kind of movie that I want to see.
 

Majestic

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Thought this was better to post here than a new thread. A bit of a joke video but one that is worth a watch. :D

http://youtu.be/5MD7yKPvK2E

[video=youtube_share;5MD7yKPvK2E]http://youtu.be/5MD7yKPvK2E[/video]
 
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