starfleet saladin class

[barbarian182]

just wondering does the starfleet saladin class meet the standard to be considered a destroyer or a frigate or both? I have never been certain and was wondering.

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:
I think it was considered a destroyer, but mostly to differentiate it from it's sister class that had no phasers and was filled with antenas to act as a scout.
I can imagine that due to Starfleet's pacifistic policies of not making warships makes a classification difficult.

 

[barbarian182]

Hello:
I think it was considered a destroyer, but mostly to differentiate it from it's sister class that had no phasers and was filled with antenas to act as a scout.
I can imagine that due to Starfleet's pacifistic policies of not making warships makes a classification difficult.

I agree. always considered starfleets Pacifistic policies foolhardy at best, given the other major powers see on screen in star trek films etc... no wonder the United Federation of planets was getting their heads handed to them in the early stages of the Dominion war storyline. you would think wiser heads would be making calls on what types of ships were being built with an eye towards combat readiness. I have been hunting for a copy of the TMP era saladin class, just for fun as I must say the design itself is kinda cool.

 

[Chiletrek]

I don't blame Gene Roddenberry for wanting to show humanity's potential once we finally stop fighting each other, but even TOS and TMP were more military-style, if that is correct, as the way ranks work and indeed the ships felt more ready for action, Starfleet was a platform for exploration but you can see they knew dangers were out there and were ready for those. The TNG was the extremely pacifist one, it was like a huge shift.

I think there is even a Saladin version of the Ambassador class for the TLE period .

 

[barbarian182]

I don't blame Gene Roddenberry for wanting to show humanity's potential once we finally stop fighting each other, but even TOS and TMP were more military-style, if that is correct, as the way ranks work and indeed the ships felt more ready for action, Starfleet was a platform for exploration but you can see they knew dangers were out there and were ready for those. The TNG was the extremely pacifist one, it was like a huge shift.

I think there is even a Saladin version of the Ambassador class for the TLE period .

good points to be sure.. are you kidding me about the Saladin version of the Ambassador class for the TLE period? that would be a cool 3d model to render shots of...but finding 3d models of lost era ships has always proven dicy at best.

 

[Chiletrek]

And yeah, I have seen it around in pics and renders as the Freedom class.

 

[barbarian182]

And yeah, I have seen it around in pics and renders as the Freedom class.

so have I. gotta say I'm not a big fan of the Freedom class...something about it just doesn't seen right...I can't put my finger on it, but thats how I see the type. It may just be a bit of bias as I'm not and have never been a fan of some of the TNG era designs...I just think they sometimes look good, and cool, but are not all that useful at times.

 

[Chiletrek]

so have I. gotta say I'm not a big fan of the Freedom class...something about it just doesn't seen right...I can't put my finger on it, but thats how I see the type. It may just be a bit of bias as I'm not and have never been a fan of some of the TNG era designs...I just think they sometimes look good, and cool, but are not all that useful at times.

Ohh, that happens, nothing wrong with that!
For instance my fav ship of the TLE era, besides the Ambassador class, is the Apollo class, which is a fan-designed Nebula class predecessor:

 

[Hath]

OOOOHHHH!!!!!!!! I like that version of the apolllo. Do you know if there is an ingame version (SOD) and where I can downlaod it, Chile?

 

[barbarian182]

Ohh, that happens, nothing wrong with that!
For instance my fav ship of the TLE era, besides the Ambassador class, is the Apollo class, which is a fan-designed Nebula class predecessor:
View attachment 21875

LOVE this class! wish I could get my hands on a 3d model of her that I can use, as I use 3ds max 2010... I think the design could be very easy to update into a TNG/Domion war era ship. and I imagine the ship would prove highly effective as a scout, an escort, or perhaps a heavy cruiser of that era.

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:

OOOOHHHH!!!!!!!! I like that version of the apolllo. Do you know if there is an ingame version (SOD) and where I can downlaod it, Chile?

LOVE this class! wish I could get my hands on a 3d model of her that I can use, as I use 3ds max 2010... I think the design could be very easy to update into a TNG/Domion war era ship. and I imagine the ship would prove highly effective as a scout, an escort, or perhaps a heavy cruiser of that era.

Join the line people, because I would also like to have a version of this ship .

I don't really do Starfleet vessels, but an alternative would be to grab Aad Moerman's Ambassador class and modify it, building the missing parts so we get an Apollo.

 

[Tryptic]

Ohh, that happens, nothing wrong with that!
For instance my fav ship of the TLE era, besides the Ambassador class, is the Apollo class, which is a fan-designed Nebula class predecessor:
View attachment 21875

Oh that's a good looking ship. Continuing the tradition of "predecessor" ship designs that are way cooler than the "final" version, due to being created by fans later

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:

Oh that's a good looking ship. Continuing the tradition of "predecessor" ship designs that are way cooler than the "final" version, due to being created by fans later

But also I like the great care to keep the aesthetics and feel of that era

 

[barbarian182]

Hello:

But also I like the great care to keep the aesthetics and feel of that era

I have always sorta wondered why the TMP era designs were suddenly seemingly abandoned in the TNG era in many ways..some of the TMP era designs are pretty awesome, and I ask myself why so few TMP era ships were not updated to TNG standards like for example the "Miranda" cl;ass..it retained its TMP form, but was updated to continue remaining in service....could other TMP designs have not been similarlly treated?

 

[Chiletrek]

I have always sorta wondered why the TMP era designs were suddenly seemingly abandoned in the TNG era in many ways..some of the TMP era designs are pretty awesome, and I ask myself why so few TMP era ships were not updated to TNG standards like for example the "Miranda" cl;ass..it retained its TMP form, but was updated to continue remaining in service....could other TMP designs have not been similarlly treated?

Well, I suppose we cannot blame designers for wanting to experiment with new designs, to make something new out of the known rules.

As for why some designs were retained? Good questions, I remember EC Henry made a video showing howthe Miranda class has more inner space for the crew than the Consitution class, so been a ship that can get more space in a more compact and efficient frame would explain why it was retained.

 

[barbarian182]

Well, I suppose we cannot blame designers for wanting to experiment with new designs, to make something new out of the known rules.

As for why some designs were retained? Good questions, I remember EC Henry made a video showing howthe Miranda class has more inner space for the crew than the Consitution class, so been a ship that can get more space in a more compact and efficient frame would explain why it was retained.

makes sense to me....As to the Miranda class, this was a design that was WAY WAY under used in my opinion. just imagine the number of variants that could have been made.

 

[Chiletrek]

makes sense to me....As to the Miranda class, this was a design that was WAY WAY under used in my opinion. just imagine the number of variants that could have been made.

Well, the Miranda class did have some variants, from the Soyuz class in TMP, to the Saratoga at the beginning of DS9, to the antares later on. But I can see it was the original design to make the Nebula class the 24th century's Miranda, but they never showed the ship that much as it could have been.

 

[barbarian182]

Well, the Miranda class did have some variants, from the Soyuz class in TMP, to the Saratoga at the beginning of DS9, to the antares later on. But I can see it was the original design to make the Nebula class the 24th century's Miranda, but they never showed the ship that much as it could have been.

agreed. I think the Miranda was likely more of a work horse than say a Constitution class...and had more use and potential for even more variants than we actually saw on screen. As to the Nebula, ya know it is cool, but still ask me something is missing from the type... that something in my own opinion is a serious lack of variants...fr as I know there were only 2 variants ever seen...

 

[Chiletrek]

agreed. I think the Miranda was likely more of a work horse than say a Constitution class...and had more use and potential for even more variants than we actually saw on screen. As to the Nebula, ya know it is cool, but still ask me something is missing from the type... that something in my own opinion is a serious lack of variants...fr as I know there were only 2 variants ever seen...

Because the Miranda was indeed a workhorse (as seen at the beginning of Star Trek II), while the Constitution was the explorer .
That is true, only fans have come-up with more variants because even the AWACs-style pod was seen only once .

 

[Mike Davis]

True, In Fan Fiction and TNG you will find Miranda's with pods, with containers, with no overhead fin spoiler (USS Lantree) as tugs, as transports (again poor Lantree) ect. Not nearly though the workhorse as the Oberth and her many lives, variations, and missions.
It is quite funny how the USS Lantree came about as I am sure you all already know.

 

[Majestic]

Because the Miranda was indeed a workhorse (as seen at the beginning of Star Trek II), while the Constitution was the explorer .
That is true, only fans have come-up with more variants because even the AWACs-style pod was seen only once .

Funny thing is I often see the Miranda as a more massed produced combat oriented design. When you think it it, she's more heavily armed, has similar internal volume, looks to have more hangar space, and much easier adaptable to certain missions. I can see the Constitution still being a long range explorer but the Miranda would take on more missions within the Federation and along the boarders, like a flagship for a boarder patrol of destroyers for example.

True, In Fan Fiction and TNG you will find Miranda's with pods, with containers, with no overhead fin spoiler (USS Lantree) as tugs, as transports (again poor Lantree) ect. Not nearly though the workhorse as the Oberth and her many lives, variations, and missions.
It is quite funny how the USS Lantree came about as I am sure you all already know.

I do like the idea of older ships being repurposed as transports etc. I did this exact concept with my Yesteryears D4 Klingon ship turning it into a Auxiliary Tender. My idea is why waste a ship when it can fit another role.

 

[Terra_Inc]

The way I imagine it - my headcanon, as they say - the Connie and her successors are generalist ships, being able to fulfill any role at a moment's notice. Jack of all trades, master of none. Whereas the Miranda and her successors are more optimized, more compact designs, probably better at any given task than a Connie style ship would be, but having to be refit before. Hence the variety of pods and other attachments on the Miranda and Nebula.
The latter would form the bulk of the fleet, but there are still good reasons to have some of the former type around. They're also the ones you'd want to use for any deep space exploration missions, since there's no way to refit / exchange pods deep in uncharted territory.

As to the Nebula, ya know it is cool, but still ask me something is missing from the type... that something in my own opinion is a serious lack of variants...fr as I know there were only 2 variants ever seen...

There was a proto-Nebula with two small extra nacelles that only ever showed up as a wreck at Wolf 359. Not a huge fan of that design, but it did exist. I agree though, I'd love to see more fan designed Nebula pod options.

It is quite funny how the USS Lantree came about as I am sure you all already know.

Sadly, I don't know that story. Please do share!

 

[Chiletrek]

Hello:

Funny thing is I often see the Miranda as a more massed produced combat oriented design. When you think it it, she's more heavily armed, has similar internal volume, looks to have more hangar space, and much easier adaptable to certain missions. I can see the Constitution still being a long range explorer but the Miranda would take on more missions within the Federation and along the boarders, like a flagship for a boarder patrol of destroyers for example.


I do like the idea of older ships being repurposed as transports etc. I did this exact concept with my Yesteryears D4 Klingon ship turning it into a Auxiliary Tender. My idea is why waste a ship when it can fit another role.

The way I imagine it - my headcanon, as they say - the Connie and her successors are generalist ships, being able to fulfill any role at a moment's notice. Jack of all trades, master of none. Whereas the Miranda and her successors are more optimized, more compact designs, probably better at any given task than a Connie style ship would be, but having to be refit before. Hence the variety of pods and other attachments on the Miranda and Nebula.
The latter would form the bulk of the fleet, but there are still good reasons to have some of the former type around. They're also the ones you'd want to use for any deep space exploration missions, since there's no way to refit / exchange pods deep in uncharted territory.


There was a proto-Nebula with two small extra nacelles that only ever showed up as a wreck at Wolf 359. Not a huge fan of that design, but it did exist. I agree though, I'd love to see more fan designed Nebula pod options.


Sadly, I don't know that story. Please do share!

If you see it that way, it makes perfect sense. I mean, the USS Reliant had a torpedo por module and the mega-phasers, but while it was aiding a research project by civilians, it was not any project as that ship was meant to transport and eventually test the Genesis Project, a technology that would do immense damage if falling into the wrong hands, like Romulan hands, or Klingon hands. So the Federation used a ship that could fend for itself.

 

[Majestic]

There was a proto-Nebula with two small extra nacelles that only ever showed up as a wreck at Wolf 359. Not a huge fan of that design, but it did exist. I agree though, I'd love to see more fan designed Nebula pod options.

EO on deviantart/A2 community has recently done a tetryon pod for the Nebula.

 

[Mike Davis]

The Lantree name came about as they had decals for Reliant so they were cut up for a new name. The Reliant model was used once again but they (the tecs) could not get the lights on the rollbar functional in time for filming. They decided to just remove the rollbar and film it, and the rest is history.