Son'a/Baku 'relations'

[Knight]

This thread spins off from a point made by Ash in the Zero Hour thread 'dilemma' that I found interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tycoon
Secondly, the Son'a. I don't know everything about them, but I look at them a different way to what some of you are doing. Some say that after the events of Insurrection, they are integrated back into the Baku society. I don't believe this to be the case.

Whereas some people believe the Son'a are actually the Baku, I believe it to be the other way around. The Baku are actually the Son'a. It was said on the film, that the Baku left their home world, and their people because they got tired of the fighting and such. The Son'a come across as hostile people, that would help understand the fighting. The Baku people stated that they choose to exclude themselves from their previous society.

Now, from the way I am understanding this, the Baku were actually Son'a, but they went to this new planet. A few people (maybe some of who were born there) wanted back to their old society, thus left the Baku planet, and went home - to the Son'a home world, joined up, got their ships, and then you see the events of Insurrection. Thus, if my theory of them is correct, then the Son'a are very much still around.

I think Ash has an interesting viewpoint on it, and would like to know what other people think.
I must admit, i always thought the Son'a were exiled Baku because of how Picards love interest (i forget her name) 'recognised' one of them as being formerly of the Baku, one that had left, and that following Insurrection, they were repatriated. I must have missed the bit Ash refers to lol. probly gettin snacks...

What does everyone else think, and why?

 

[Paulhanselluk]

This thread spins off from a point made by Ash in the Zero Hour thread 'dilemma' that I found interesting.



I think Ash has an interesting viewpoint on it, and would like to know what other people think.
I must admit, i always thought the Son'a were exiled Baku because of how Picards love interest (i forget her name) 'recognised' one of them as being formerly of the Baku, one that had left, and that following Insurrection, they were repatriated. I must have missed the bit Ash refers to lol. probly gettin snacks...

What does everyone else think, and why?

It is stated in the film that the Baku left there homeworld to escape the "fast paced" life, and that the S'ona were a group of people who left the Baku due to a difference in opinion about technology. I would say the S'ona are Baku not the other way around.

 

[Knight]

It is stated in the film that the Baku left there homeworld to escape the "fast paced" life, and that the S'ona were a group of people who left the Baku due to a difference in opinion about technology. I would say the S'ona are Baku not the other way around.

yup.. i was definately off getting snacks then lol

 

[F-Bobby]

yup.. i was definately off getting snacks then lol

there was plenty of time for snack getting during that movie.... As my dad put it, it would have made for an Ok 2 part episode.

P.S. Supposedly there was an Interview with Jonathan Frakes done about how he felt about the script and the movie in general, rumor has it that he bashed the movie and the script soo much that they are never going to release the interview.

 

[Dan1025]

I agree with Ash's post, the Baku were just colonists orginally from the Son'a homeworld (otherwise there would have been more than 600 of them), then when "a group of young people" left to persue a technologically driven lifestyle, the settlers on Baku remained (and never aged due to the metaphasic radiation in the planets rings). Some of the Son'a then try to exile their elders and use the radiation to gain their youth back....or something like that lol

Side Note: For a quite funny version of the Insurrection script, go here:
http://www.the-editing-room.com/startrek9.html

 

[Paulhanselluk]

Supposedly there was an Interview with Jonathan Frakes done about how he felt about the script and the movie in general, rumor has it that he bashed the movie and the script soo much that they are never going to release the interview.

That was nemesis I think

 

[Knight]

either way, i missed a key plot point lol

 

[Paulhanselluk]

either way, i missed a key plot point lol

So did the writers and directors ........

 

[Aerilon]

My original 'theory' still stands mind. The Baku did leave their original home world. But who is to say that this home world wasn't one from which the Son'a are from?

It seems unlikely to think that a group of people from the Baku, got up and left, and then managed to create ships (by themselves) which rivalled or even overpowered the Sovereign Class.

 

[Knight]

It seems unlikely to think that a group of people from the Baku, got up and left, and then managed to create ships (by themselves) which rivalled or even overpowered the Sovereign Class.

Also a good point, I don't think anyone had considered that one before. answers how they got the technology

 

[Paulhanselluk]

Also a good point, I don't think anyone had considered that one before. answers how they got the technology

We are all assuming a lot, I would like to put a thoery down, we know that the Baku/Sona are an off-shoot of an advanced race (the baku were able to fix data without even blinking), so, do you think it could be is safe to say that Sona used some of the technology from the "mother" race for there own purposeses with bringing the "mother" race into the equation?

 

[Knight]

We are all assuming a lot, I would like to put a thoery down, we know that the Baku/Sona are an off-shoot of an advanced race (the baku were able to fix data without even blinking), so, do you think it could be is safe to say that Sona used some of the technology from the "mother" race for there own purposeses with bringing the "mother" race into the equation?

I dunno... you'd think that if they were settling permanently, they would maybe disassemble the ships partly to build initial housing, till they made something permanent.
I know i would if i was settling somewhere permanently lol

 

[Aerilon]

We are all assuming a lot, I would like to put a thoery down, we know that the Baku/Sona are an off-shoot of an advanced race (the baku were able to fix data without even blinking), so, do you think it could be is safe to say that Sona used some of the technology from the "mother" race for there own purposeses with bringing the "mother" race into the equation?

An interesting theory, but you can't rule out mine can you?

 

[Knight]

An interesting theory, but you can't rule out mine can you?

lol, its all theory, we cant discount one or the other. just discuss the merits of each

 

[Paulhanselluk]

Bring in Judge Judy ............

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

Remember, the Baku told Picard that if you build a machine to do the work of a man that you take away from the man. They explained that they had technology but decided not to use much of it. The Sona left after they attempted to take over the colony. It was awhile before they returned. So, it is possible for them to have built a few ships that were more powerful then Federation tech at the time. Although in the movie they made it appear that the Sona's fleet was at most 2 or 3 ships. Just enough to carry them. I honestly think that the Sona/Baku are so small in number that while they are higher in technology then the federation. They could never pose a threat. Also, in the movie the Baku gave the impression that things were so bad on thier homeworld that they were killing themselves off. Which the appearance of the Sona backs up. I thought it was an interesting storyline because it touches on a subject that seems to be repeated often in history.

 

[F-Bobby]

That was nemesis I think

no it was Insurrection. Nemesis wasnt even directed by Jonathan Frakes.

 

[Knight]

Remember, the Baku told Picard that if you build a machine to do the work of a man that you take away from the man. They explained that they had technology but decided not to use much of it. The Sona left after they attempted to take over the colony. It was awhile before they returned. So, it is possible for them to have built a few ships that were more powerful then Federation tech at the time. Although in the movie they made it appear that the Sona's fleet was at most 2 or 3 ships. Just enough to carry them. I honestly think that the Sona/Baku are so small in number that while they are higher in technology then the federation. They could never pose a threat. Also, in the movie the Baku gave the impression that things were so bad on thier homeworld that they were killing themselves off. Which the appearance of the Sona backs up. I thought it was an interesting storyline because it touches on a subject that seems to be repeated often in history.

Maybe... i tend to favour that the son'a rejoined their origin species to get their tech as well... especially as the movie seems to suggest that there has been an alliance between sona an feds for a while

 

[Majestic]

Also remember that the Sona conquered two primitive races and turned them into a working class within their society. Troi mentions it in a scene with Riker while they were doing research in the ships library.

 

[Creed]

To my understanding the Son'a were a group of kids from the Baku (new ) world who seemd to disagree with the non-tech pastoral lifestyle...

as for leaping ahead in technology... the Baku might be refusing to use it but that doesn't mean that they have forgotten how it works

(just because or rules have banned landmines doesn't mean that our engineers couldn't knock one up fairly sharp)

the Baku were supposed to be VERY knowledgeable people, who just preferred not to use that knowledge


however i haven't seen the film in a while and this might be mis-remembered..

 

[Paulhanselluk]

That was nemesis I think

no it was Insurrection. Nemesis wasnt even directed by Jonathan Frakes.

I was making a joke, there were both so bad, they have well as been directed by the same person .......

 

[Knight]

To my understanding the Son'a were a group of kids from the Baku (new ) world who seemd to disagree with the non-tech pastoral lifestyle...

They were in a sense... but as was pointed out, the Baku left their original planet of origin because it was so violent... conceivably the son'a are the original species and those kids went back to them, as i believe Ash suggested.

Lot of different view points here

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

I was making a joke, there were both so bad, they have well as been directed by the same person .......

I liked both movies. They both had ramming speed started but only Picard could finish the job. LOL.

There are alot of different points of view here. Thats a good thing.

 

[Knight]

There are alot of different points of view here. Thats a good thing.

shame theres no canon explanation yet...

 

[Aerilon]

'Yet' is correct. However, the TNG crew (most of them) have said they wont do any more Trek work. And now it seems as if we are once again going back in time so the answer of the Baku / Son'a will remain a long awaited one.

 

[Knight]

'Yet' is correct. However, the TNG crew (most of them) have said they wont do any more Trek work. And now it seems as if we are once again going back in time so the answer of the Baku / Son'a will remain a long awaited one.

which is a shame. we dont need to go back in time again - least not to the TOS era - maybe before hand during the war with the Romulans, that would be good.

I'd like to see a DS9 movie too. I mean, Sisko did sorta re-appear as a 'ghost' or a manifestation of the 'prophets' to say he'd be back someday.

It'd be nice to see them get the crew back together instead of splintering.

but please god no Voyager movie. ever. let the character shields rest

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

We will probably never hear a "canon" reason for any of it. Which is sad to see Star Trek hang in dead space as far as anything interesting happening. They got the movie coming out but they killed Enterprise claiming going into the past was a bad idea.

 

[Knight]

We will probably never hear a "canon" reason for any of it. Which is sad to see Star Trek hang in dead space as far as anything interesting happening. They got the movie coming out but they killed Enterprise claiming going into the past was a bad idea.

I think they just went back too far, and didnt develop some ideas that could have been made more interesting, or hinted at something we know has taken place - for example, we know there was a war with the romulans before TOS from "balance of terror" - enterprise could have gone into that more following the episode featuring that romulan designed vessel with its holographic 'cloak' that made it appear as a different ship - they could have done more with that. or gone into what caused the war with the klingons during the TOS era.

they ruined it by not using things that are already sort of pre established

 

[Kosh Naranek]

My original 'theory' still stands mind. The Baku did leave their original home world. But who is to say that this home world wasn't one from which the Son'a are from?

It seems unlikely to think that a group of people from the Baku, got up and left, and then managed to create ships (by themselves) which rivalled or even overpowered the Sovereign Class.

Simple explanation for that. As I recall, nowhere in the film is it stated how long since the Son'a off-shoot race left the Bak'u parent race (though, technically, as their DNA is the same, or close enough to read as the same, their is technically no child or parent race). So, for all we know, the Son'a could have been in space for just as long as Earth, if not longer.

Also, don't forget, they were not only allied with the Dominion, but also had two conquered slave races, thus aquiring their technology. Let alone the tech the Bak'u had on their original ships.

 

[Creed]

de, dramatic imperative required that the badguys have some neat capabilites..... would have been a little weak if the enterprise had been able to laugh at their puny efforts before beaming them all into the brig and simultaneously dressing them up in bunny suits....


(you try breaking out wearing a set of bunny feet...)