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Request for Some Transformers Info

Borg_Queen

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As the title says; I need some Transformers info. :)
I am going on a film course and has gotten some homework concerning them, mainly Unicron and such. This is what I need some answers about:

1. I know that Unicron is vulnerable to the Matrix, but is it necessary to get inside him and open it for it to destroy him? Or can the Matrix destroy him also then opened outside him (though at a close range)?

2. Is it possible for humans to use/open the Matrix?

3. If Primus didn't help right away, could you give me any good reason for that? Could it also be that Primus gave the humans the Matrix if yes to question 2?

I'll post more questions if I need more. This little homework of mine shall in the end result in a short movie. :D
 

Starfox1701

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If you have not seen the 80s animated movie I highly recomend that you do as this is the first time Unicron is seen. Based on what I know the Matrix of Leadership can only be opened by a Prime or one it choses as worthy as in the case of Hot Rod. The light of the Matrix is a source of pure good making it the bain of pure evil like Unicron.:cool:
 

Borg_Queen

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I have seen that movie, bought it last month. :)
And I have also read through the Transformers wiki about Unicron a few times.
Though those still not quite answers my questions. But am I right if I say that you mean the Matrix can find humans worthy?
 

Hellkite

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By most accounts, the Matrix is a conduit for the power of Primus, the creator-god of the Transformers, serving as a means of access to the Allspark, the "afterlife" of the Transformer race, through which it can either bestow new Transformer life, or provide its wielder with a means of communicating with the deceased leaders who have come before them. These divine powers put it at the centre of much Autobot religion, spirituality and prophecy; while many Decepticons are less inclined to believe in its divinity, they certainly covet the increased physical power it is known to convey upon its holders, and several have made obtaining the Matrix one of their primary goals. As one of the embodiments of the power of Primus, the Matrix is antithesis to Unicron, and one of the very few things the chaos-bringer fears.

question 2. Is it possible for humans to use/open the Matrix?

Most modern Cybertronians eschew the mythology of the Matrix as set out by the Council of Ancients, which claims that it is a conduit for the energies of Primus, choosing instead to believe in atechnogenesis. Despite this, Transformer society still holds the Matrix itself in great reverence, as, product of a deity or not, it is indisputably the most effective source of new Transformer life. Many conflicting stories and rumors swirl about the Matrix's true nature, born of claims that the Council actively prevented Alpha Trion from telling the general public more about it, but what is known about the talisman is that it is a virtually limitless source of energy. Only those with an affinity for the Matrix can wield its power; these Transformers are typically those chosen to be the next Prime, who often receive physical augmentation when the Matrix is taken into their bodies. More Than Meets The Eye #8

the answer is No
 
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Straxus

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The mythology has evolved so much. I remember when the Matrix was explained as Unicron's deactivation/self-destruct key. I think the episode was called "The Primitives" from G1 season 4. All the monster/animal transformers were summoned by Primacron (I think that was his name) who created Unicron. I can't beleive a remembered that much from my childhood.
 

Borg_Queen

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Ok, seems question 2 has been answered, and that means I need a Prime as well. Hopefully that is possible for my short movie. :)

But what about the other two questions?

PS.: Yeah, Straxus, the mythology has evolved. I prefer the comics version concerning Primus and Unicron (quoted here as the wiki puts it better than me):

Before the dawn of time, Order and Chaos existed within an extra-dimensional entity known as The One. To explore the fledgling universe, he created the astral being known as Unicron, and then subdivided him, creating his twin, Primus. Both brothers were multiversal singularities, unique in all realities, but whereas Unicron could only exist in one universe at a time, moving between them at will, Primus existed simultaneously in all realities at once. It is suggested, in fact, that the two brothers embody the basic concepts of reality—good and evil, order and chaos—and that their continued existence is necessary for the stability of the multiverse.

As Unicron and Primus went about their appointed task, venturing through the cosmos, it became apparent to Primus that Unicron was a corrupt being, and he took it upon himself to stop the threat posed to all of existence by his sibling. In combat, Primus was no match for Unicron. In cunning, however, he proved himself to be his brother's superior when he shifted their battle to the astral plane, and then back to the physical world once more, only to have both their essences manifest within metallic planetoids, leaving them both trapped. It was with this act of sacrifice that Primus hoped to contain Unicron's evil forever. Unfortunately for him, over time, Unicron learned to psionically shape his prison into a giant metallic planet, and Primus followed suit, becoming the mechanical world of Cybertron. When Unicron then learned to transform his planetary form even further, into a gigantic robot form, Primus adapted the idea to suit his own ends, creating a group of thirteen robots that possessed the ability to change shape, like Unicron.

The war between Unicron and Primus came to its seeming end during a climactic battle in which one of the Thirteen, Megatronus Prime, who would forever afterwards be known as The Fallen, betrayed Primus and became an acolyte of Unicron. The battle ended when the Fallen and Unicron were sucked into a black hole and disappeared from reality. With Unicron gone for now, Primus entered an eons-long slumber, his self-imposed sleep preventing Unicron from detecting him through the mental link the brothers shared.

That quote may or may not answer question 3, but I'm not sure. I am after all rather new to this, so what do you say?
 

Borg_Queen

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Just a little something I want to mention; My deadline for answers on all 3 questions posted up here is June the 2nd.
Though there is a chance that I'll have more questions to post after wards in here. :)
 

Amateur

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My knowledge is a little rusty (and in all honesty, is based solely around the old cartoon and movie back in the 80s) but I'll give it a go :thumbsup:. Recent series may contradict some or all of this however, as I think it is Hasbro's stance that each universe is 'true'; and that they subscribe to all of the different realities...

1. From what I know, the matrix was never described or known as some sort of weapon against unicron. At least, not in the series. It was the repository of all of the former Primes; the leaders before Optimus and - for a short while - Rodimus. Indeed, Optimus' remarked that the matrix was used to 'light [their] darkest hour; and it just so happened that the darkest hour was when the sole remaining autobots were trapped inside Unicron as it was descending on Cybertron.

2. Never really came up, but I can think of a couple of practical reasons why not. One, it took up most of Optimus' chest piece; so it's roughly the size of a big truck cab thing. Two, the handholds have to be gripped a certain way and pulled apart. With the size and - probably - weight it would take a team of humans to do that. And finally, I think it chooses who can open it and when. In the movie, for example, Ultra Magnus is unable to open it despite frantically scrabbling at it. Rodimus just pulls it apart (and gets some awesome background music :lol2:)

3. Primus changes pretty much constantly, and the only thing that seems to link all of the different things is that it is the Autobot/Transformer version of the Judeo-Christian deity; having served as creator and caretaker some time in the distant past, and now fills the role of absent father figure. That quote you have seems a pretty good summary to me; though I should note that in the series Unicron was created by an evil mad scientist to conquer the universe. The dichotomy created by Unicron/Primus seems to be a new invention. The earliest memory I have of Primus is Optimus Primal using it as a mild expletive in 'Beast Wars'; as in 'By Primus'.

Hope that helped :)
 

Borg_Queen

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Hope that helped :)

Well, both yes and no. Seems I have to rephrase a few stuff as it seems my requests were misunderstood.

1. From what I know, the matrix was never described or known as some sort of weapon against unicron. At least, not in the series. It was the repository of all of the former Primes; the leaders before Optimus and - for a short while - Rodimus. Indeed, Optimus' remarked that the matrix was used to 'light [their] darkest hour; and it just so happened that the darkest hour was when the sole remaining autobots were trapped inside Unicron as it was descending on Cybertron.

In the comics it were described as such, and in the 86 movie Unicron himself says the Matrix is the only thing that can stop him (direct quote (about): "This is my command; You are to destroy the Autobot Matrix of Leadership. It's the one thing, the only thing, that can stand in my way." - Unicron to Megatron). And it's also said in the official wiki about Transformers then you search up Unicron (which happen to be the first place I found out about him).

Though what I wondered about with question 1 is this;
Unicron's body is destroyed then the Matrix is opened inside him (though it's revealed later in the series he survived, believe it or not), though we also have a scene in the movie Galvatron tries to open the Matrix while standing outside (and on) Unicron (before he transforms). I wonder if the Matrix had been opened there (by someone that could open it); Would it have the same devastating effect to Unicron as it later had then opened inside him?
Hope you understand now. :)

2. Never really came up, but I can think of a couple of practical reasons why not. One, it took up most of Optimus' chest piece; so it's roughly the size of a big truck cab thing. Two, the handholds have to be gripped a certain way and pulled apart. With the size and - probably - weight it would take a team of humans to do that. And finally, I think it chooses who can open it and when. In the movie, for example, Ultra Magnus is unable to open it despite frantically scrabbling at it. Rodimus just pulls it apart (and gets some awesome background music :lol2:)

This question had already been answered, though I'll comment on that one anyway; The thing that most confused me about if the Humans could use and open it or not is due to "Transformers; Revenge of the Fallen" there Sam uses the Matrix to help Optimus (Sam is Human), though it's not that clear on it if that was an one time event or not. That was the reason for me asking, that and due to that my teacher didn't wanted the movie to be too complicated, I try to narrow down on the ammount of Transformers (originally I was thinking of only having one Transformer; Unicron).

3. Primus changes pretty much constantly, and the only thing that seems to link all of the different things is that it is the Autobot/Transformer version of the Judeo-Christian deity; having served as creator and caretaker some time in the distant past, and now fills the role of absent father figure. That quote you have seems a pretty good summary to me; though I should note that in the series Unicron was created by an evil mad scientist to conquer the universe. The dichotomy created by Unicron/Primus seems to be a new invention. The earliest memory I have of Primus is Optimus Primal using it as a mild expletive in 'Beast Wars'; as in 'By Primus'.

The dichotomy (not sure what that word means :confused: ) created by Unicron/Primus as you call it is not that new, it was earliest mentioned in the comic "The Legacy of Unicron" after what I read on the web, and that comic is from 1988. I don't have that comic (or anyone else Transformers related comics outside of the one leading up to the 2007 live-action movie, for that matter), by the way.
And I see you mentioned Primacron as well though as I stated; I prefer the comics version which is mentioned on the web. I prop. should have mentioned it's the comics version of Unicron I want to use for that short movie. After all; An astral being inside a physical body which also happen to be the very Yang (Or was it Yin that was the dark part) in the Yin-Yang theory is something I find much more interesting than what the Primacron stuff deliver. No offense. :) ;)

Oh, and back to what my third question was about; I was thinking that to both have Unicron do some major damage in the movie and also having Primus at one point help the good guys; I needed a good reason for why he didn't help earlier (as it won't be at once he helps).
 
Last edited:

Amateur

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Hehe, I said I was a little rusty :)

It's been a while since I've seen the film, and the comics were before my fandom and extremely hard to find where I grew up. Dichotomy means pretty much what you explained about yin/yang - two halves that are opposites yet part of the same thing.

Someone else with a much broader knowledge of the lore can probably help better :thumbsup:
 

Hellkite

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di·chot·o·my
   [dahy-kot-uh-mee]
–noun, plural -mies.
1.
division into two parts, kinds, etc.; subdivision into halves or pairs.
2.
division into two mutually exclusive, opposed, or contradictory groups: a dichotomy between thought and action.
3.
Botany . a mode of branching by constant forking, as in some stems, in veins of leaves, etc.

In this case Unicron the destroyer and Primus creator

The first clash between brothers Unicron and Primus came when Unicron succeeded in his goal of consuming the universe. As he slumbered in the void it was revealed that he hadn't been thorough enough — tiny fragments of the universe remained and reacted with each other, leading to the creation of the current universe. The universe grew around Unicron and when he awoke he did not question it, merely beginning to consume it again. The sentient core of the universe responded by creating Primus, a guardian to battle Unicron. The infant universe shook and quaked from the ferocity of their battles and Primus was eventually forced into a desperate gamble.

He shifted the battle to the astral plane where he fared no better and then returned them to the physical universe, but instead of allowing them to materialize in their energy forms he entrapped both Unicron and himself in two metallic asteroids. Unicron would not be stopped, psionically shaping his asteroid into a massive metal world and then into a gargantuan robot. Primus, however, elected to create a race of guardians to defend the universe against Unicron, transforming his own asteroid into a metal world which would later be known as Cybertron. On that world he gave birth to the Transformers, bestowing the race with his distilled genetic Matrix. So Primus slumbered, shutting himself down to hide the world from Unicron.


They are the embodiments of good and evil such each can not destroy the other with out destroying them self


Oh, and back to what my third question was about; I was thinking that to both have Unicron do some major damage in the movie and also having Primus at one point help the good guys; I needed a good reason for why he didn't help earlier (as it won't be at once he helps).

He did the Matrix is a part of Primus
 

Borg_Queen

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Thanks for the explanation of dichotomy, even though the dictionary explanation was a riddle and not easy to understand (the reason why I don't like those).

PS.: Again I have to rephrase question 3 as it weren't asnwered, but misunderstood.
Yes, I know Primus gave them the Matrix, I've known that for months. And that is not the question was about.

The question is about something else as I picture that the group don't have the Matrix at first (due to as stated, I want Unicron to do some damage first). So I wonder what could be a good reason for that Primus did not help at once (helping by sending the Matrix to them in some way, maybe even through a Prime, as well as maybe helping the group getting to Unicron to use as Unicron would not let them do that so easily).

So I still wait for answers to questions 1 and 3.

PPS.: Is it the Yin or the Yang that stands for the evil side? I have always thought that it was Yang that did that, but then I read on the wiki something that could hint it's the other one. :confused:
 

Hellkite

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PPS.: Is it the Yin or the Yang that stands for the evil side? I have always thought that it was Yang that did that, but then I read on the wiki something that could hint it's the other one. :confused:

(Yin-Yang) represents the ancient Chinese understanding of how things work. The outer circle represents "everything", while the black and white shapes within the circle represent the interaction of two energies, called "yin" (black) and "yang" (white), which cause everything to happen. They are not completely black or white, just as things in life are not completely black or white, and they cannot exist without each other.

While "yin" would be dark, passive, downward, cold, contracting, and weak, "yang" would be bright, active, upward, hot, expanding, and strong. The shape of the yin and yang sections of the symbol, actually gives you a sense of the continual movement of these two energies, yin to yang and yang to yin, causing everything to happen: just as things expand and contract, and temperature changes from hot to cold.
 

Borg_Queen

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As it has been a few days without any replies, I ask again:

Is there any answers to question 1 and 3 in primary post. I need to know within 4 days. ;)
 
T

thunderfoot

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As it has been a few days without any replies, I ask again:

Is there any answers to question 1 and 3 in primary post. I need to know within 4 days. ;)
I would say go with your instincts on this one, M'Lady. It is your film of your story, so you should be able to get away with a little artistic license, should you not? As long as you don't have Optimus defecting to the Decepticons, or turning gay, a little variance can be a good thing.

Are you planning on sharing this film project with us? Please say, "Yes". :excited:
 

Hellkite

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1. I know that Unicron is vulnerable to the Matrix, but is it necessary to get inside him and open it for it to destroy him? Or can the Matrix destroy him also then opened outside him (though at a close range)?

Answer is NO Even with his body destroyed his astral form remains and will just seek out another body So in that way he was never destroyed only stopped even from with in his body

Refer back to yin yang same concept. both Primus and Unicron are two sides of the same coin

3. If Primus didn't help right away, could you give me any good reason for that?

A Primus is for the most part passive " asleep" most of the time the only part of him is that is Active is the Matrix and the transformers them self's given they are all part of him this is the source of the saying " Until all are one " in the one in case is Primus
 

Borg_Queen

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Seems my questions got misunderstod again as I didn't talked about Unicron being completely destroyed, only stopped (or more precisely; destroyed the 86 movie way (remember he survived)).

I'll just use artistic license then for the answers on those two questions as TF said. :)
 

Syf

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I'll just use artistic license then for the answers on those two questions as TF said. :)

This is what Stan Lee, the original Author, intended. There are many "versions" of TF, and each one is different. That is the fun of TF, is each version tells it's own story. If you haven't done so, then I suggest you just do it that way.
 
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