Opinions on the Age of the Steamrunner and Saber Class?

[CptBenSisko]

Ok....So. We all saw the Akira, Steamrunner, Saber and Norway Classes for the first time in First Contact along with the brand new Sovereign Class. Of course we know the Sovvy is brand new cuz LaForge says the Enterprise was the most advanced ship in the fleet at the begining of the movie.

What im doing is going through a process of 'weathering' all of the old Starfleet designs that are in my fleet. Im modifying the textures of the Excelsiors, Mirandas, Ambassadors and the like so they look like workhorses that have seen thousands of hours and hundreds of lightyears in space.

These vessels are only available as warpin ships... I need to know if I should include the Saber and Steamrunner class starships as warp ins, instead of having them built at a shipyard. The reason being is that the registry numbers for those ships are all considerably lower than any of the new designs in Starfleet at the point. the Saber Class USS Yeager was NCC-61947...by comparison..the Sovvy herself is either NCC-75000 or NCC-73811 which ever source you go by. The Galaxy class starships are all also start wtih NCC-7XXXX like the yamato 71807, or odyssey 71832, venture 71854 or even the Galaxy herself 70637. The Steamrunners also have fairly low registry numbers for a brand new ship of the late 24th century USS Appalacia NCC-52136. Going by that number that puts it somewhere in the mid to late 2340s well before the Galaxy Class, Akira Class and Intrepid Class....the USS Curry which is either Curry Class/Shelley Class is NCC-45617 and the Lakota likewise was an excelsior class refit hence the low NCC-42768.

So..does it make sense to have the Saber and Steamrunner only available as warp ins? As it would also give more variety in warp ins...and have the Defiant and Intrepid Class ships built as the main line destroyer and light cruisers?? What does everyone think? I don't wanna weather the textures of the Steamrunner and Saber if they are comin right out a shipyard as brand new ships..but as warp ins it would like theyve been diverted and have seen hundreds of hours in combat and exploration.. Thanks guys for your opinions...

 

[Atlantis]

I wouldn't go solely by age. If a design has been superceded by a more modern design, THEN have it as warp-in.

I would say that, despite it's "age", the Sabre is still the "modern" frigate, so keep it mainstream.

The Steamrunner... I can't see that one being a mainstream design to start with. In my eyes it was designed as a smaller modern counterpart to the Excelsior, but didn't catch on. The Intrepid replaced that slot in the fleet, so make Steamrunner warp-in and the Intrepid mainstream.

I also see the Defiant as being too specialised to ever be a mainstream mass-produced ship, so I'd suggest find a way of making it more limited, but not just warp-in.

 

[CptBenSisko]

in my mod..you can only build 6 Defiant Class ships...so as not to over power and spam the **** outta them...Akiras and Sabers there will be quite a few Steamrunners coming in as warp ins

 

[Majestic]

I agree with Atlantis about those ships. I also think the Norway is an older ship too, maybe not as old as the Steamrunner. Also no a more personal note, I generally ignore the registries as well we are talking about the Trek producers and they aren't the brightest or more attention to detail bunch around now are they.

 

[Terra_Inc]

Yeah, canon registries make no sense. The VFX guys are pretty unreliable when you want to establish canon facts about starships. Take the size of the Akira: According to DS9 VFX people, it is about 220m long. On-screen comparisons show a size of ~350m. The ILM size chart for First Contact states a size of 500m. And you think those people put registries on the ships that make sense!?

Talking about the ships, I would count the Streamrunner, Norway and Sabre as pretty new. From an in-universe POV I'd say that they didn't appear in TNG, and therefore must at least be newer than the ENT-D. I think they are, but weren't mass produced (or, in case of the Sabre and Norway, maybe exlusive to the Sector 001 perimeter defense).

 

[Majestic]

I think they are, but weren't mass produced (or, in case of the Sabre and Norway, maybe exlusive to the Sector 001 perimeter defense).

Well the Norway could be considering they lost the filming model and it was never seen on screen (to my knowledge) again. However I think I recall seeing the Sabre in some DS9 episodes, especially the one taking back DS9. However with that said in the briefing with the Admirals one was complaining about leaving Earth defenceless, so perhaps the Sabres came from the fleet that normally defends Earth.

 

[K_merse]

I always start from the registration number. In my opinion, that shows exactly when the ship was built, or at least ordered to be built by Starfleet.
If you look at it like this, then you could say that both the Sabre and the Steamrunner are relatively old designs, they were constructed to fight in the Cardassian War - just like many other ships, like the Himalaya, the Springfield and so on.

According to this theory, Akira and Norway classes were developed alongside the Galaxy and the Nebula. The Akira was obviously a battleship design, with the full-arch torpedo coverage, but possibly it was dropped, just like the Defiant. I think several Akiras were ordered by Starfleet during the Cardassian War, but they were canceled/postponed later, and were reactivated in the Dominion War.
The Norway always seemed to me like the predecessor of the Intrepid. A small, agile and cheap cruiser with enough weaponry to defend itself, but its primary role is space exploration.

I think though that these four classes were built for a very long time, even beyond Nemesis. I wouldn't put them into warpin section, but I would add some other classes, like the Miranda, the Hood-type Excelsior, the Freedom, the Cheyenne and so on.

 

[StarBlade]

We saw lots of Steamrunners and Sabres among the fleets during the Dominion Wars. I know we saw lots of Excelsiors and Mirandas, too, but I would have to guess that the registry number can be ignored, and that both types of ship were designed and put into production around the same time as the Defiant. For all we know the design concepts could be a century old and were only able to be put into successful production after the Borg became a threat to the Federation. But all the FC ships have warp nacelles and deflector systems that seem to be newer than the New Orleans/Freedom, Cheyenne/Springfield or Ambassador-family nacelles. And they're all fairly similar in engine concept and appearance, despite vastly different nacelles. The same can be said about their impulse engines (although we don't see much of their backsides to be able to tell!) and their overall deflector configurations. I would definitely count the lot of them to have been put into production at the same time, with the Defiant only making it to the big dance in Sector 001 because of Ben Sisko's personal intervention.

With regards to the Norway, I mentally tell myself that some CGI data storage error should never impede the works of the imagination. To my mind, there WERE lots of wishbones in the fleet formations of the Dominion War. They were just off-screen, or replaced on-screen by Akiras or Mirandas. Either that, or there was some structural integrity questions after an investigation into the loss of a ship at the Battle of Sector 001 and Starfleet voluntarily stood down its Norway ships until the investigation (which met with delays and politics because there was a war going on at the time) was fully concluded. This doesn't preclude their reappearance in the war since the stand-down was voluntary BUT it also means they wouldn't have necessarily been relied upon-- and maybe this investigation was part of the reason we saw so many Excelsiors and Mirandas pressed into service after all!

It's so much more fun filling in the gaps in well-intentioned ways.

 

[Majestic]

With regards to the Norway, I mentally tell myself that some CGI data storage error should never impede the works of the imagination.

Yeah they should have re-built her if it was lost due to a technical error. However that would have cost model and I know they didn't want to spend anymore than they needed to, especially when they could have just dumped a Akira or Steamrunner in it's place as they no doubt did. It's a same as in all my TNG mods I have done, I have always had the Norway as a light cruiser or heavy destroyer.