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[Help] Map Height in A2 to be more like A1

Majestic

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Hello all, I have come with a question to someone whom is more knowledgeable in this field than I.

Does anyone know how to turn map height off, to make it more like A1 and Fleet Ops. I hate map height, I'd rather have it gone all together or have have only big enough so ships can just fly over each other.

I have looked through the ART_CFG and RTS_CFG files with no luck.
 

Undying_Nephalim

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Hello all, I have come with a question to someone whom is more knowledgeable in this field than I.

Does anyone know how to turn map height off, to make it more like A1 and Fleet Ops. I hate map height, I'd rather have it gone all together or have have only big enough so ships can just fly over each other.

I have looked through the ART_CFG and RTS_CFG files with no luck.

Ahh yeah it took me ages to figure out what controlled that because it's worded odd. :sweat: That can be edited in RTS_CFG. Scroll down to the lines that say:

// Ship combat configuration
float SKINNY_SHIP_COMBAT_FLOOR = -400.0;
float SKINNY_SHIP_COMBAT_CEILING = 400.0;
float SHIP_COMBAT_FLOOR = -1250.0;
float SHIP_COMBAT_CEILING = 1250.0;
float DEEP_SPACE_SHIP_COMBAT_FLOOR = -3000.0;
float DEEP_SPACE_SHIP_COMBAT_CEILING = 3000.0;

If you want map height similar to FO then -250 and 250 is the best value for all of them:

float SKINNY_SHIP_COMBAT_FLOOR = -250.0;
float SKINNY_SHIP_COMBAT_CEILING = 250.0;
float SHIP_COMBAT_FLOOR = -250.0;
float SHIP_COMBAT_CEILING = 250.0;
float DEEP_SPACE_SHIP_COMBAT_FLOOR = -250.0;
float DEEP_SPACE_SHIP_COMBAT_CEILING = 250.0;


Generally though I have the values at about 500 so there's still some semblence of a Z axis
 

Majestic

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A huge thanks, it worked, although I changed the values from 250 and -250 to 50 and -50. :)
 

Dominus_Noctis

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A huge thanks, it worked, although I changed the values from 250 and -250 to 50 and -50. :)

Although I doubt it needs to be said, I'd be careful that a range that small doesn't screw up pathing with your larger ships and stations :sweat:
 

Majestic

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Thanks for the heads up, However it seems to be working okay atm although I haven't done a heap of testing yet and I will have to edit the maps so moons can be mine-able as some are above or below my new grid.

But I am rather happy with the results, I may change it to 75 however I want to see how 50 goes first. :)
 

USS_Excalibur

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A huge thanks, it worked, although I changed the values from 250 and -250 to 50 and -50. :)

All I can say is that the narrower it is. The less tolerable the map will be with BG objects. Anything below the floor will not be shown. Theoretically.
 

Starfox1701

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at 50 what is the actual map height?
 

Majestic

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At 50 there is just enough height so ships can fly over or under each other and that's about it. There is still a bit of height with it.
 

Starfox1701

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Enough for really big stations like Shadow Spacedock?
 

Majestic

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I don't know that class of station. I can use DS9 with construction being in one of the top pylons without any issues.
 

Starfox1701

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sorry I ment Shadow's Spacedock. You know the big Fed shroom.
 

Majestic

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The one in Star Trek 3, where Kirk steals the Enterprise (1701, no a, b, c, d or e)?
 

Starfox1701

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Yea that one. If you scale it to stock ships It's Ginormus like an SSD.
 

Majestic

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Probably not then, I don't like huge stations, it causes pathing issues and A2 is horrid for pathing issues. In fact I have recently been playing A1 again, and I feel while A2 has all these new fancy features, A1 is still a superior game, when you compared the two stock games to one another.

I suppose if you have the centre of the mesh set up high on the model, it should work, that's what I believe many A1 modders used to do, like APOC in Empires and Federations, as they used the Mushroom starbase for the Federation.
 

Starfox1701

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speaking of Empires and Federations you got a copy of that? It's not up for DL anywhere any more.
 

Dominus_Noctis

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Probably not then, I don't like huge stations, it causes pathing issues and A2 is horrid for pathing issues. In fact I have recently been playing A1 again, and I feel while A2 has all these new fancy features, A1 is still a superior game, when you compared the two stock games to one another.

I suppose if you have the centre of the mesh set up high on the model, it should work, that's what I believe many A1 modders used to do, like APOC in Empires and Federations, as they used the Mushroom starbase for the Federation.

I'm not sure if A2 has this functionality (at least I can't find the folder that would have it...), but you could use the Fleet Ops 'Addon folder features' to create a different sized .sod for very large objects, which will allow vessels to fly around them better :sweat: . Sadly though, the A2 pathing is quite bad in FO as well, though this can at least alleviate some issues.

Another way would be to just place the station below the field of play I believe.
 

Adm_Z

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no, I don't believe a2 has that ability. a1 might have though.
 

Dominus_Noctis

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Ah, seems TUN just posted something I did not know, though you probably do -

"- If you ever plan to have a giant ship or huge background object in your mod (such as the Argus Array), be sure to physically lower the model in whatever model program you use, rather then physically lowering it in the map editor. Lowering objects in the map editor usually causes visibility issues, and large ships that move on normal levels always always always have massive pathing issues, and nobody like pathing issues."

Would definitely be useful for something ginormous and ready to cause issues :D
 

CABAL

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no, I don't believe a2 has that ability. a1 might have though.
A1's Addon folder serves the same purpose as the ODF folder in A2.

However, a workaround for A1 and 2 would be to use the line "shieldPad = x" where x is a positive or negative integer and uses the same scale as the weapon ranges. It can be used to change the collision area of a vessel or station, but it also changes the range that the shield bubble extends so you shouldn't make it too small or the shields will cut through what they should be defending, lol.

Another possibility would be to tinker with the Collision.cfg file but I don't know enough about that to give any advice.
 

Majestic

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speaking of Empires and Federations you got a copy of that? It's not up for DL anywhere any more.

Actually I think I do, I got it somewhere. I'll go and have a look.

EDIT: Yes I found it, along with both patches. I'd feared I may have lost it with my recent PC problems, but I was mistaken.
 

Atlantis

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By a startling (for me, anyway) I was looking for E&F myself yesterday. I stumbled over a thread from 2005 of people looking for it, and no luck even then, let alone now. Unfortunately it's looking like the only two sites that had it (stamods and apocent) are both the way of the dodo :-(

Unless someone still has the installer, that is.
 

Majestic

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By a startling (for me, anyway) I was looking for E&F myself yesterday. I stumbled over a thread from 2005 of people looking for it, and no luck even then, let alone now. Unfortunately it's looking like the only two sites that had it (stamods and apocent) are both the way of the dodo :-(

Unless someone still has the installer, that is.

I uploaded it to the STA1 section here for people. I still had it on my PC and after much thought and looking at the credits, I saw no reason against uploading it.
 
T

thunderfoot

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I adjusted the Stock A2 RTS file for the Physics project to raise and lower the ceiling and floor of the map. I rather liked the idea of ships being able to sneak in "under the radar". I prefer to play A2 in 3D mode as well. The adjusted ranges of weapons and sensors in the Physics Project gives the AI or one of my LAN opponents the opportunity to surprise me or each other more often than not.

"An analysis of his tactics indicates two dimensional thinking" - Captain Spock

I can recreate in A2 the scene where Enterprise surfaces behind Reliant and knocks the stuffing out of her. Yeah, I agree. A2 has an 'unfinished' feel about it and a lot of junk inside. A1 is a better game overall, but I prefer A2.
 

Starfox1701

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A1 is a better game overall, but I prefer A2

I disagree here. A2 is everybit as good a game as A1; A1 just has more of the cool shinies and polish that let you know the game is finished and tested. A1 is more good big toy truck and A2 is more like an erector set. You have parts, wheels, and even a motor. Just add elbow grease and batteries and you have a better truck.:p
 

Majestic

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I believe A1 is a better game, it isn't as annoying as A2 when playing. An example of this that really frustrates me is when a enemy ship comes to your base and then retreats, your ships chase it rather than staying put. I often find a ship of mine across the map following the one ship trying to kill it. I find that even with the move autonomy set to green it still does it on occasion. It frustrates me to no end, especially how default is yellow.

Also how ships keep firing on a enemy ship after you have started transporting crew on board to capture it.

Not to mention the game was so much more balanced. Why the changes all the values for A2 escapes me. Why they didn't just copy them over from A1 I will never understand.

I also miss the option to have your starbases when built near planets having an increase in crew gathering. I feel too many nice features were purposely taken out of A2. They might me minor features, but they were nice features nonetheless.
 
M

Megadroid

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I find that even with the move autonomy set to green it still does it on occasion. It frustrates me to no end, especially how default is yellow.

If you set the movement autonomy of the yard to low any ship produced will also have that autonomy level - much easier than changing each ship as it is produced.
 

Majestic

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If you set the movement autonomy of the yard to low any ship produced will also have that autonomy level - much easier than changing each ship as it is produced.

I generally change the starbase and construction ships at the beginning of the game, before I build anything. However it still sometimes happens. Thanks for the tip however, much appreciated. :)
 
M

Megadroid

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I generally change the starbase and construction ships at the beginning of the game, before I build anything. However it still sometimes happens. Thanks for the tip however, much appreciated. :)

Ah, wasn't sure if you knew or not, it's one that lots of people seem to miss.

I can see what they were trying to do with movement autonomy, but really its just too much complexity. A simple guard mode would have been enough, along with some sensible roaming ranges for units.
 
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Majestic

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That's what annoys me, it works in A1 fine, ships only wander if you fell them to explore, search and destroy or to go somewhere. There is no movement autonomy in A1, it was something new in A2 and like many things doesn't work as advertised. I am seriously considering going back and modding A1 after playing it again. :)
 

CABAL

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If you do that, I have tricks on getting A2 style and quality glows working in A1. The drawback is additional polys.
 
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