• Hello and welcome to MSFC. We are a small and close knitted community who specialises in modding the game Star Trek Armada 2 and the Fleet Operations modification, however we have an open field for discussing a number of topics including movies, real life events and everything in-between.

    Being such a close community, we do have some restrictions, including all users required to be registered before being able to post as well as all members requiring to have participated in the community for sometime before being able to download our modding files to name the main ones. This is done for both the protection of our members and to encourage new members to get involved with the community. We also require all new registrations to first be authorised by an Administrator and to also have an active and confirmed email account.

    We have a policy of fairness and a non harassment environment, with the staff quick to act on the rare occasion of when this policy is breached. Feel free to register and join our community.

Discovery Series

Archonon

Master Chief Petty Officer of Starfleet
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
539
Age
46
Hey I'm currently crushing on a redhead, so I can get behind Yeoman Sparkles' support here.

Ok, so Lorca, Saru and Sparkles, those we can keep. Scrub everyone else in the crew, get a new ship, and decide what the heck story you are trying to tell. Then, I buy your Blu Ray CBS. Til then...no Tilly for me. Sorry. :p

And is it sacrilege to say that I hated the last episode of Enterprise so much that I am glad that the Riker thing is there so I can pretend it is completely non-canon and just an inaccurate historical record badly programmed into the holodeck or "artistic liberty" from a historical record, kind of like how Call of Duty sees WW2? For me, Enterprise ends after they stop Admiral Marcus' evil twin ancestor.
 

Jetfreak

Filipino Expat
Staff member
Forum Moderator
Seraphim Build Team
Master of Art
Joined
22 Mar 2008
Messages
2,554
For what it's worth I did enjoy the mid-season finale of Disco. The pacing was real good and I did appreciate the marginal improvement of the ship scene lighting and setups. Felt more traditional in some shots, but its not saying much.

I did find Lorca's reveal to be interesting...
So basically the Spore network also taps to various parallel universes. Maybe that could explain why Disco looks so vastly different from the old school Trek.

Oh, and the Tyler stuff was pretty unnerving, but I guess that was the point.
 

Majestic

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Seraphim Build Team
Joined
17 Apr 2006
Messages
18,272
Age
39
I agree with Jetfreak the episode was an improvement and looks like they're going to try and phase out the spore drive with any luck. :)
 

SciFiFan

MSFC Hunter Vanguard
Staff member
Forum Moderator
Lone Star Hunter
Joined
13 May 2009
Messages
2,087
Age
45
After the first half season for ST: DSC (sorry, I loathe STD :p), what I like the best is the opening music and what I like the least is the spore drive.

I actually did really get into the last two or three episodes. I also caught on to what Jetfreak said in his spoiler tag. I am honestly kind of eager to see where it picks up in January.
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
They could end the season with Discovery's spore drive malfunctioning and dumping them into an alternate universe. Or rather, the prime universe.
Wow. I think they're actually doing this.
 

kjc733

Wibble
Staff member
Site Manager
Seraphim Build Team
Master Shipwright
Joined
30 Mar 2008
Messages
2,477
Age
39
Which again brings me back to: So why call it Star Trek?
If you didn't want to play by Trek rules, but knew (because ignorance is a valid, if distasteful excuse) that you weren't playing by those rules, then they could have made a far better series by departing completely from the structure they put themselves in.
AU in something like Trek is, in my opinion, the resort of an unimaginative writer, so is time travel. Don't get me wrong, some of Treks best episodes include these themes, but they should be rare one-offs. You have the entire universe to play with. You have a whole bunch of species in later Trek you can do "First Contact" with if you are stuck for ideas. You can do the "my ship is crude and therefore breaks a lot" episodes. But if you have to resort to bringing in another universe for fresh ideas in the first series you really need to reconsider your job as a writer.

EDIT
Disclaimer - I have only seen the first two episodes of DISCO.

Side Note - I have seen eight episodes of The Orville and am loving it. It is nowhere near as slapstick as the adverts made out and they have covered some quite heavy topics at times. And if you are so inclined, you can probably make a drinking game from "Spot the Trek music rip off".
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
Which again brings me back to: So why call it Star Trek?
If you didn't want to play by Trek rules, but knew (because ignorance is a valid, if distasteful excuse) that you weren't playing by those rules, then they could have made a far better series by departing completely from the structure they put themselves in.
Apparently they had absolutely nobody who did any significant lore research until they were several episodes in. The war with the Klingons in DSC is supposed to be the mentioned recent war with the Klingons in TOS, but the dates don't line up, for instance. My guess is that the sudden introduction of alternate universes in the mid-season finale is the result of their new (formed after the seventh episode was created, mid-season finale is ninth) panel of experts telling them that DSC's already finished episodes don't quite fit in the timeline. So it really was ignorance and now they're trying to fix it. This also gives them a chance to redo some of the things that proved unpopular, such as the Klingon makeup.
 

Archonon

Master Chief Petty Officer of Starfleet
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
539
Age
46
Oh wow. If they actually go there I will probably crack my skull from the impact of the facepalming I will be doing. I agree with kjc, if you need to go universe hopping mid-series because of the same continuity issues that you created in the first place then that means you need to replace the entire writing staff immediately.

I started calling Discovery STD because: 1) It made me chuckle, and 2) That's what the series feels like and has pretty much the same effect on me.

I watch the Orville and it's alright. I watch it more because there is literally nothing else at the time but I am not invested in the characters at all. The jokes are mostly terrible and it bothers me that it is trying to clone all of the TNG timeline series instead of doing its own thing. For what it is though, I find it enjoyable.

I just wish we could go back to the heyday of good sci-fi series like there was in the mid-90s to early 00s. I miss the days of Babylon 5, Space Above and Beyond, Farscape and, to a lesser extent, Battlestar Galactica.
 

starbuck

Cadet Sophomore
Joined
16 Nov 2017
Messages
31
I've only seen the first episode of Discovery, but I have some comments and inconsistencies from what I've seen. I didn't come up with these all myself, but I agree with all of them.

1. How do the Klingons have cloaking technology? I thought only the Romulans did in the original series.

2. In TOS, Spock states that a cloaking device would be theoretically possible, implying they never saw it before. This is already an inconsistency though because ENT had lots of cloaked ships such as the Suliban. Still though, if cloaks were used 10 years before Kirk and Spock, why wouldn't they have known about it?

3. Why did all the Klingons loose their hair and grow their ridges back? ENT explains how the Augment virus wiped out the forehead ridges, but now in Discovery they have them again, only to lose them 10 years later in Kirks time.

4. I've only seen YouTube videos, so I don't know the specifics about the spore drive, but I heard it travels about the same rate as voyager going through the Borg transwarp drive. If the spore drive was around before Kirk, couldn't it be common place on starships like voyager. With the spore drive, voyager could make it home in 4 weeks.

5. In the first episode of discovery, why did they have to send Lt. Cmdr. Michael in the space suit alone. Why couldn't they send a probe? Or a shuttlecraft? It just seems really risky to send one officer by herself into a hostile situation.

If anyone has any ideas comment about it, and these are just my opinions. I'm interested to hear what other people think about it.
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
1 & 2 - Continuity error. ENT's cloaks can be explained away as being a result of contamination from the Temporal Cold War, though that requires that ENT be set in its own timeline, separate from the other shows. To be honest, that would actually explain a lot of ENT. The cloak is a new thing in DSC, though, so they're ignoring (or don't know about) ENT's cloaks. Ditto with not being familiar with The Balance of Terror.

3 - I don't think the production team knows about the Augment Virus. This is a total retcon of Klingon appearance.

4 - There are certain issues with the spore drive in the following episodes. These issues could have prevented general adoption, but we don't know yet.

5 - The beacon had some sort of jamming device. They probably would have lost control of anything that got close enough.
 

starbuck

Cadet Sophomore
Joined
16 Nov 2017
Messages
31
Those were good ideas. For the 5th point, I only got to see the pilot once when it was on TV, so I couldn't remember it very well. I don't like how you have to pay for the streaming service. One of the things I like about Star Trek is how it's everywhere. It's on Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc..., so I feel like CBS is trying to commercialize it again which sucks.
 

StephenGDelta

Cadet Senior
Joined
4 Nov 2017
Messages
87
Age
29
im quite enjoying Discovery atm, interesting, though bit miffed with the "D7" that was seen :(

hey with discovery S1 part 1 over, what does everyone think of it?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Archonon

Master Chief Petty Officer of Starfleet
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
539
Age
46
I was rather torn with this series. On the one hand, I enjoyed the visuals and the production values. On the other hand, I felt the characters were underwhelming, the "war" story was meh, I despise many of the re-designs and hate that they are trying to shoehorn it into the Prime timeline which it clearly does not fit. If it was its own universe or even the Alternate "Kelvin" universe, I'd find it much more palatable.

When I see this series the only thing that comes to my mind is, what a beautiful mess.
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
hate that they are trying to shoehorn it into the Prime timeline which it clearly does not fit.
There are certainly a ton of issues scattered around, even if we ignore the visuals. For instance, if we say that ENT, DSC, and TOS are all part of the same timeline, then the cloaking device is introduced as a brand-new never-before-seen tech three times. With ENT I could point to the Temporal Cold War and say, "time travel shenanigans," to explain the cloaks and conclude that ENT is in a new timeline distorted from the original, but adding DSC to the mix just doesn't work. Did Kirk, Spock, and everyone else just forget that the Klingons had cloaks and were using them en masse just a few years ago? Did Georgiou, Saru, and Burnham somehow never hear about the Suliban and Romulan use of cloaks going back one hundred years? This is especially irritating when the pilot episode already introduced a Klingon station with an ECM system that could functionally replace a cloak for narrative purposes without contradicting TOS in the slightest.
 

Archonon

Master Chief Petty Officer of Starfleet
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
539
Age
46
Absolutely Cabal, those are the kind of narrative holes that really chafe against what was established in TOS.

As far as I see it, I consider ENT as its own timeline which leads into Kelvin due to the Temporal Cold War and Nero's incursion of 2233. I see TOS as the starting point of the Prime timeline which ends with VOY and ST: Nemesis. Depending on what they decide to do, the new series with Picard would likely fit in here as well.

But I haven't a clue about STD (Yes, I call it that). It feels like its own reality, like the Mirror universe. Not to mention that the technologies used within the series, such as the spore drive, are never again even referenced in the Prime timeline. I don't even remember any specific mentioning of an actual Klingon-Federation war in TOS beyond the cold war which had been going on far longer than STD's timeline would put it. *Shrugs*
 

Chiletrek

Warriors from Fluidic Space
Staff member
Forum Moderator
Toaster
Joined
22 Oct 2006
Messages
3,415
Age
41
Hello:
Well, if Discovery is phasing-out the spore drive is because it came from another source with several ideas beeen stolen by CBS! I mean, there is evidence that many ideas used in Discovery were originally made for an Indie game many years prior, and CBS used the ideas without even consulting or anything ->
 
T

TUB_Husker

Deleted Due to Inactivity
Former MSFC Member
Can we not say to Discovery, that is a new interpretation of Star Trek a reboot.
F... o.. Prime, Kelvin and other Timelines. It isn't imprtant. My Star Trek ends with Nemesis (I know, a bad film).
Discovery is a result of the fusion process of licenses from CBS and Paramount, I think, believe, it's about to create a new consum society money maschine.

Our reality is not about (Star Trek) ideals, but how to make money from them. And Today, is money the only reason to produce anything. And the importance aren't the old Trekkies rather young, "naiv", "stupid" adapted consumers, with an attention span of zero.

It's not about Star Trek, it's about money.

Sorry, for my possible hard words.
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
New trailer for season 2.


We've got Klingons with hair (they're apparently retconning it that tradition has them shave during war time and grow their hair out during peace; how that works with the wars in TNG and DS9 or why even people who arent part of T'Kuvma's faction are shaved in the first episode, I have no idea), toned down Klingon prosthetics (hopefully the actors can emote now), and a D7 that actually looks like a D7. I'm not sold on what I see of plot, but it's nice to see them correcting some of their mistakes.
 

Majestic

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Seraphim Build Team
Joined
17 Apr 2006
Messages
18,272
Age
39
Certainly a step in the right direction of fixing the issues of season 1. :)
 

SciFiFan

MSFC Hunter Vanguard
Staff member
Forum Moderator
Lone Star Hunter
Joined
13 May 2009
Messages
2,087
Age
45
We've got Klingons with hair (they're apparently retconning it that tradition has them shave during war time and grow their hair out during peace; how that works with the wars in TNG and DS9 or why even people who arent part of T'Kuvma's faction are shaved in the first episode, I have no idea), toned down Klingon prosthetics (hopefully the actors can emote now), and a D7 that actually looks like a D7. I'm not sold on what I see of plot, but it's nice to see them correcting some of their mistakes.

Perhaps it was because many of the houses were fighting with each other. T'Kuvma's main goal after all was to unite the houses.
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
Looks like they're backpedaling some more changes. The Enterprise is now using its original dimensions instead of being scaled up to nearly Galaxy-class size, the hull seems to be TOS color again, and the pylons are no longer swept back (though they do retain the gap).

dsc-s2-promo-ent-status-display.jpg
 

kjc733

Wibble
Staff member
Site Manager
Seraphim Build Team
Master Shipwright
Joined
30 Mar 2008
Messages
2,477
Age
39
Of all the aesthetic choices made for Discovery, the Connie is probably the only one that the fan base didn't actually complain about (much).
*shakes head* I just don't get why they persisted in making choices that they knew would annoy the pre-existing fan base in favour of a new fan base who probably didn't care what everything looked like anyway.
Anyways, here's hoping they don't do anything stupid in season 2...
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
Discovery really is a great big pile of dubious decisions with a small number of good ideas sprinkled in.
 

Majestic

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Seraphim Build Team
Joined
17 Apr 2006
Messages
18,272
Age
39
I am kinda hoping the Discovery gets destroyed in season 2 and they get a new Discovery that looks more TOS like to help fix the mistakes that they did at the beginning. Would improve the series ten hold imo.
 
Top