Babylon 5 vs DS9

[Majestic]

Send me the link via PM, if it checks out I will allow it.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

Send me the link via PM, if it checks out I will allow it.

Oops, sorry, but I already posted them. I'll go ahead and remove the links for both the B5/BSG and B5/DS9 ones. Once again, sorry about that.

EDIT: While, I would remove them if I could edit my posts. My apologies for not waiting to hear back from you on that.

 

[Majestic]

The links seem to be alright, I used to visit b5tech.com a lot a few years ago. b5tech.org and .net seem to be by the same person, well at least the designs are very similar.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

*Breaths a relieved sigh*

Dodged a bullet on that one.

Oh, just in case the forums go out (as I can't access any of the B5tech family of sites), want me to upload my saved ones as attachements to the threads?

 

[Borg_Queen]

One night while Season 3 was new, I caught a rerun at 2:00 am, the episode was A Distant Star; where the EAS Cortez is lost in Hyperspace so they send the Starfuries on a rescue mission. I was really enjoying the episode but when I saw the Shadow ship obliterate the Starfury commander, I was hooked instantly. The following night the then new episode was on so I tuned in, that episode was Severed Dreams, nuff said.

I happen to have the entire series (B5) on DVD. It was bought from America, so I'm glad that my DVD player is regionfree.

Not to be picky, but "A Distant Star" is the 4. episode in season 2, not season 3. It was interesting indeed to see the Shadow vessels, and the Shadows are my favorites in Babylon 5. The episode then the Starfury commander was killed by the Shadow vessel, was "The Fall Of Night", the last episode in season 2. And "Severed Dreams" was the 10. episode in season 3, so it looks like the tv channel you was looking at, didn't show them in order.


It was a while I liked Babylon 5 better than Star Trek, but now the shows in my mind are equally great.

I've just watched a small part of DS9, so I can't say so much about that series yet.

PS.: Muad'Dib, for a short while I thought you were the same person as one of the members with the same nick at Trekkers Norway. But then I checked abit, I found out you were not.

 

[Modigar]

I got to say B5 wins in my book it just had so much going on (EA Split/Narn-Centauri War/Shadow War) and the host of main & sub characters was excellent.
I also felt that DS9 copyed B5 but not just the main war but on a couple of things, like B5 had Whitestar then DS9 had Defiant for example.
plus all the battles & effects in B5 were created from scratch were as if you watch closly enough the battle sequences in the last episode of DS9 there all copyed or edited from a previous episode battles in the series.
Dont get me wrong, I liked DS9, but not near as much as B5.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

Personally, I will not compare the 2. Trek is trek, and B5 is B5. Both great shows in their own right.

Have to agree with Syf. While I have no qualms about debating the pros and cons of both, we do have to remember that both are seperate from the other, no matter how much DS9 ripped from B5.

Lol, and sorry about digging this thread up again, but, IMHO, this was a good discussion and I know that I, for one, have more to say on the topic.

 

[Lord_Trekie]

I really really want to actually watch B5, but the only way for me to do that right now is to buy it season by season and I can't do that quite yet...

 

[Kosh Naranek]

You could try Youtube, that usually has episodes of various shows.

 

[Majestic]

Lol, and sorry about digging this thread up again, but, IMHO, this was a good discussion and I know that I, for one, have more to say on the topic.

Unlike many other forums and their staff out there, I don't have any problems with people bumping/reviving old threads, I think it's better than leaving them there to rot.

 

[Creed]

IMO the main difference was unity, bab5 had a more or less unified main plot running through it, one that progressed and affected the characters and their world.

by COmparison most of the star trek genre deliberately tried to make everything the same week to week, so nothing changed much.

Also Bab5 had a nice darker edge to it to begin with, and perhaps a more surrealistic theme underscoring some of it...

One thing that nobody can tell me is easy for us post-flower power generationals to relate to is the apparent utopia of ST. They even had to basically go back on their idea of a moneyless society in Voyager (replicator credits) and DS9 (latinum)

By contrast Bab 5 had it's own slums, drug addicts and even dared to imply homosexual relationships...making it realer (as much as that can be said for sci-fi) and therefore more relevant to the watchers.

 

[Dontai]

who are you guys kidding. Star trek rips off/ borrows thing from almost every single sci-fi show (and thats to the point why people like it) Borg were basically revamped cyber men from doctor who. Star trek basically mix and mashes different sci fi together. It take varies sci - fi material and combines it with varying result. Ds9 is no exception, in fact it has more then any other series.

PS: lets face it, star trek died in TOS. This new star trek is nothing like old one. The old one didn't rip off other series. It was original. TNG - ds9 -voy ripped off every sci-fi show to date. Beside director of ds9 just suck ...

 

[La Patience]

well i like DS9

Ok i havent watched much B5 but i would like to one day (of course id have to get the huge box set to watch it as they dont show it in the uk on normal channels ).

Any way i loved DS9 as it was the most family kind of one ( dont mean for the family, i mean the crew really came together ). sure voyager had its were stuck so lets intergrate heh, but DS9 had the best relationships ( obrian and julian ).

didnt like the defiant much but loved the amount of Miranda's shown in it.

DS9 was what got me into the crew not just the different ships and since i dont like the borg that much iwas glad they didnt include them.

hated the domminion they could have done better than that, religion in it was annoying but it wouldn't be the same without.

Vic had his highlights.

Overall while star trek nicked a few ( mayne more ) ideas DS0 at least was different to VOY and TNG.

P.S i liked alot because it had Cardassions in it they rock hee.

 

[Creed]

The darker edge of B5 was really very cool, something that Trek never really aspired to except in a few scattered episodes...

They also ahd some very deep themes about the duty of a soldier to the principles of the society they fought for and the mentality of a soldier rebelling against the institutions of the same...

Siege mentality is always really intriguing,(look at the enduring love of the Bajroan resistance and the Maquis), a distillation of some very hard ideas, and B5 did it very nicely indeed

But IM very humble opinion, B5 sold a lot of that out. They tried to become too metaphysical, too complex and too fluffy, turned their hard men into priests and brought in some real rubb' about prophecies that were always way OTT and death to some really good characterisation (removal of personal choice as an aspect)

DS9 dealt with some of the same issues, but definitely when I do base station sims I want the civvys and the slums, I want the dealers and the darkness. Crime is more interesting when it isn't sanitised and the juxta position of the military establishment and the needs of an embattled civilian populace is too rich a source of storylines to voluntarily lose.

 

[WrathofSpanky]

In my opinion, Star Trek as it has become can never hold a candle to B5. B5 is anything if not loyal to its foundation. Its about reality set admidst fantasy and science fiction. Incredible story. DS9 is not even in the same league in my opinion. Too corny, cheesy, and badly acted. Plot is too unbelievable in DS9 and the physics of the show (space physics, combat, etc) usually make me change the channel. Something about hundreds of ships in close proximity to each other going up in anti-matter explosions just bothers the heck out of me. Maybe I'm too much of a nerd but wouldn't a fleet numbering in the hundreds go up like a string of black cats in chain reaction? B5 is very true to science in space physics most of the time. None of that crap you see on DS9. DS9 had some of the worst acting in my opinion since the remaking of the "Outer Limits". Absolutely terrible. Almost as bad as Voyager in that respect. Neelix? Tom Paris? 7 of 9? Somebody please shoot me! Watching Voyager usually makes me want to try to saw my head off with a dull butter knife.

....Oh and I almost forgot.... B5 had some of the best acting ever in sci-fi. Katsulas for one, was amazing. DS9 acting couldn't come close.

 

[CrazyFrog1903]

I prefer DS9 over B5. I just like it better. B5 seems to much about gloom and doom when I watched it. It seemed like a good show. If I had the chance to watch it from the begining. I am sure I would like it.

Also, I am speaking as a staff member on this. Some need to calm down in this thread. Some of the posts only seem a step or two away from the start of a flame war. Remember. They are only TV shows. Thanks

 

[WrathofSpanky]

Its all in fun. Like you said its just a tv show. I'm not getting my blood up. I may be a little opinionated but thats just the way I am. I would like to be deeply encaged in a spirited debate on the subject. Its just conversation. Like they say in Godfather: "It just business". So its nothing personal. Just fun conversation. Its fun when people disagree. Even more fun when they do it a lot

 

[Syf]

I myself have a preference to DS9. Yes, it was focused at the B5 fanbase. That was the original marketing idea. So, yeah, it's only natural that they mimic the show it was desinged to compete with... But there is one thing that DS9 had before B5 came out with their version... The USS Defiant. That ship Rocks (and I like the Whitestar too, as it's the B5 version of the Defiant).

 

[WrathofSpanky]

I didn't think of that! The White Star and Defiant are mirrors arnt they? Funny. DS9 certainly had its strong points. I did have high hopes for the series. I just feel that they went overboard with the war thing, and rushed through the storyline WAY too quick. It might have been a little more artistic to have resolved the series in something other than a massive bloodbath and genocide. Star Trek may have been better served with a peaceful resolution despite all the animosity.

 

[Syf]

Well as a fan of all good things trek... You bet they messed up that whole ordeal... The final season was rushed, and messed up because of the infamous B&B bad directors themselves... And the ending made it clear they crushed any hope of a DS9 movie on the big screen.:x

But don't get me wrong, I am a fan of B5 too. The number one reason: I feel it's more realistic compared to trek. Both Star Wars and B5 have better real physics based technology and technobabble in their portrayal of ships, space-stations, life in deep space, etc.

 

[EAS_Intrepid]

I dislike Defiant and Whitestar equally. I like Babylon 5 more, though. But in my opinion the spin-offs, especially Legend of the Rangers, are completly stupid. That was not necessary.

Lost Tales was great, though.

 

[Syf]

Yeah I noticed your more into those big capitol ships, EAS. I like them too, also.

 

[Aerilon]

I kinda grew up with Trek, therefore I watched more of DS9 than I did of B5. On that note, I prefer DS9. I can't really comment on who stole what etc, but I agree completely that the Dominion War (especially the ending) was rushed, and was rushed bad.

There was a lot that wasn't answered, plus, I didn't like the fact that DS9 had a religious base around it. The Prophets and whatever had no favour on me, I wanted to switch off whenever that Kai Winn showed up.

 

[SquireJames]

Well, I've only seen B5: The Beginning (courtesy of my stepfather) but I have to say I liked it, but came to the realisation that i'd have to try and catch repeats to see it from the beginning to make any sense of it as a series.

Reminded me greatly of Starlancer/Freelancer

 

[WrathofSpanky]

I know what you mean. When Captain Sisko started getting all "mystical" and going native it made me want to vomit. If you look at the pilot and the relationship with the wormhole aliens in the beginning, they completely changed to that "prophecy" based crap of the final season. That was a bad move. The show might have been better served if they fully explored the nature of the Prophets with the storyline. They could have done something really special but they blew it.

Don't get me wrong, DS9 had a lot of potential. I think the producers really dropped the ball though. Some of the characters profiles became a little too "familiar" and the plot points too muttled and confused. I understand that one thing that makes DS9 so popular is the huge amount of CGI in space battles and the like, but I think thats one of things that ruined it. Compare TNG with DS9 and you'll see what I mean. TNG was character and dialogue driven while DS9 was action driven. Over half of TNG was about the personal doings of the characters and HOW they handled themselves while DS9 was a sort of campaign narrative. When "epic" combat occurred in TNG as in "Best of Both Worlds 1 & 2" I think it was much more meaningful and suspenseful. In that way I think DS9 tended to overpower the senses a little and had a tendency to skip ahead too far. Look at the Klingon Civil War in TNG. It was completely based on the character interactions instead of epic space battles and action. I think that's what made TNG superior. While B5 also had some tremendous special effects it too was character driven and based upon more complex character interactions. DS9 often had only one plot and no subplots as were in B5 throughout the series. I think that was a often glaring weakness in DS9 throughout the series and is one reason I think it doesn't compare well with B5.

If any of you don't have Netflix I'd suggest you get it. I've recently watched entire B5 collection over episode by episode inserting the movies in canon timeline. It was great to watch it over again. The series comes in four episode dvds. Or I suppose you could just buy the entire series but its pretty expensive which is why I suggest getting Netflix or Blockbuster online. Plus you can watch all your Trek shows too. I've been watching TOS again on the CBS main site. They have the entire series there for online viewing. It's not the digitally remastered series but its still awesome. On a side note, I love what they did with the digitaly remastered TOS. It makes it so much more powerful. Gene would have been proud.


Freelancer is a great game. I understand they also have some pretty cool mods to go with it. Does anyone know if their is a B5 mod for Freelancer?

Oops! Sorry for the double post guys.

 

[Blindeye]

Well, I've only seen B5: The Beginning (courtesy of my stepfather) but I have to say I liked it, but came to the realisation that i'd have to try and catch repeats to see it from the beginning to make any sense of it as a series.

Reminded me greatly of Starlancer/Freelancer

Shame, In the Beginning is full of spoilerific stuff for seasons 1-3 of Babylon 5

 

[Drakkenor]

B5 is way better than DS9. And I'm not saying this without looking at both sides of the fence. I enjoy DS9(and I have no idea why people hate Voyager [continued at {1}]) I liked it when Quark had a Tribble(spelled right?) on his head . I wish Babylon 5 lasted longer and I'm 50/50 about the ending. I cant remember the ending to DS9.

{1} Back to Voyager= Like I said I don't understand why people hate it. True, the ending was bad, And true, they missed out in although. I personally would have liked the shuttle craft from the junk dealer(the one that linked to Tom Parris' mind) to not have been destroyed . It would have been an interesting sub-plot for him to from episode to episode to fight for dominance with the AI of the ship , possibly for it to become a little powerhouse that could win in a three to one fight with those spiky haired B@$%^&d's (from the first season) smaller ships , or make it play a key role in a big fight where Parris finally gets control . Just my idea... good idea Y/N?
I have lots more to say on this... Ill wait till later...

 

[Ryderstorm]

Babylon 5 and DS9 both took a darker direction as the producers both felt that with real life events going on at that time that the people wanted to watch shows equally as dark. They also attempted to do this with Voyager which IMO did not work well. Voyager had a lot of potential but for my taste failed miserably as it jumped around quite a bit...yes there were a few multi episode arcs but basicly voyager seemed "cut and pasted" together where as B5 and DS9 did mostly have some continuity.

Since this thread is about B5 vs DS9 My vote is split between the two. Both shows had some similarity but the storys were vastly different. DS9 I felt handled the dominion war quite well where as the 5th season of B5 was very rushed and not very well planned out it seemed. With that said though the final episode of B5 in season 5 is one the most moving episodes of anything I have ever watched.

Babylon 5 also I felt had a better soundtrack.
But the whitestar looked like a plucked chicken where as the Defiant looked bad A**.

Quark was a very good part of the DS9 lineup and quite frankly had better storys than Worf.

Ben Sisko though in the later seasons became quite "human".

Sheridan had a god complex for a while.....

Special effects for both shows are quite good for their respective times and for being tv shows with B5 pioneering the way for completely CGI effects.

Hmmm both shows have different strengths and failings. But I dont really think that they are clones of each other. They are two different universes with two completely different storys and at least Babylon 5 had a proper ending where as DS9 left the viewer kind of hanging.

Yep my vote still says they are both good shows and that one is not better than the other.

One last thought though.....B5 had wayyy kewler capital ships

 

[Majestic]

BVoyager had a lot of potential but for my taste failed miserably as it jumped around quite a bit...yes there were a few multi episode arcs but basicly voyager seemed "cut and pasted" together where as B5 and DS9 did mostly have some continuity.

That's funny as that is how I feel about DS9, in my opinion it was the worst of all the Trek series and B5 was superior to it in so many ways. Not to mention DS9 was competing and when B5 was getting better ratings they decided to copy elements to try and bring their own ratings up.

 

[Adm_Z]

I have to agree with majestic, though I am not all the way through either, B5 is a much faster and more watchable series. I can only hope DS9 gets better when worf is on the show, however its so slow I might shoot myself before I get to that point.