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A closer-to-canon Borg

PreciousRoy

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I am not much of a modder; I'm more of a tinkerer with existing mods. So, take what I'm saying here with that pinch of salt-- I'm not talented enough to do what I want to do, but I thought I'd lay the idea out here, in case anyone thought it was a cool idea and wanted to work on it with me someday.

One of the things that has bothered me about the Borg since A1 is the insistence on collecting resources from moons and planets. You have to build your collection base, build your trade system (Recycler), build ships to do the mining. And then you have to defend these things from attack.

Maybe this is off on my part, but it seems to me that the canon Borg aren't like that, at all. They strip-mine planets for resources. They pull apart ships to rebuild their own. They regrow damaged areas and construct ships from existing ships-- not build a shipyard. They evolve-- either laterally, or upwardly, to survive.

The same base-building and defending that other races do just doesn't seem to fit with the pirate-like Borg. They should be a source of oppression, not a sitting target. They should be powerful on their own, and capable of eating up stations, ships, and strip planets and moons of their resources.

But if you make them powerful enough to do all that, then they pretty much own Instant Action from about twenty seconds in. There has to be some kind of natural progression from what can manage against scout ships, destroyers, and Construction ships, to what can manage against starbases.

What I conceived of was, beginning with three types of craft: a rectangle (like the Interceptor), an egg, and a triangle. They possess holding beams that can strip resources from ships (including people), and strip metal and dilithium where possible. Instead of station crafting, these three basic crafts can multiply, splitting into two vessels, or evolve, growing into a new version. The rectangle grows and progresses to be a Cube-shape; the Egg grows into spheric shapes, such as the Sphere and ends up with a multi-vector ship that is shaped like a dodecahedron (20-sided dice); and the triangle becomes Diamonds and Pyramids and so on.

The further up they evolve, the more weapons they get, and the better they can strip for resources. Whilst they employ Holding beams, the ships weapons have to be in the green, and they have to be uninterrupted for a certain number of seconds before they gain the resource. In the case of planets, the planet's base resources are drawn from, and a great number of it's development goes away, depending on which level stripping beam is employed. With ships and stations, a ship can eat away a station's value and basically, the ship is dismantled, causing the visual effect of destroying a base about two seconds from it be dismantled-- small, but still visible.

More on this idea later if there's any interest in it. :ty:
 

CABAL

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The features in FO would be a great base to work with here. The rank-up system would allow Borg ships to evolve with every few kills and the replaceweapon would allow you to convert captured ships into the Borg equivalents for full assimilation. You can even require that they be near a friendly Borg station, but that's more involved.

There's not a good way to directly convert hostile ships into resources, but there are options. Ships can gain resources when they rank-up, so when a Borg vessel evolves, the owning player could get some dilithium/metal/whatever. Frequent but small evolutions would help. And there's always the option to simply decommission captured vessels.

The replaceweapon would also allow you to convert ships to and from combat and mining modes. I don't think converting to an orbital mining facility would work so they would still need somewhere to drop off resources, though.

Splitting ships could also be done with the replaceweapon. It probably wouldn't look pretty, though, so having ships simply build and launch smaller ships via replaceweapon may work better. Kind of like the First Contact Cube launching a Sphere.

Regarding ship types, I'd probably have different shapes for different purposes and have them get bigger and more powerful with age. Cubes could be the most powerful with a good mix of assimilation and combat abilities, but take longer to grow while Spheres and Pyramids may be more combat and assimilation focused, respectively, but be over-all weaker and grow faster.

Alternatively, when the starter shapes that you proposed, such as the Egg, reach a certain size you would have to pick a path for them before they got bigger. For instance, a 400 meter wide egg may be able to become a Sphere, with an emphasis in one area, or a Dodecahedron, with emphasis in a different area. Once a path is chosen, the vessel would slowly take that shape and shift its stats appropriately as it grows and evolves. You could even have them go to even more specialized forms after completing an evolution.

In both systems, there are options for assimilated ships. One system would be to let the player convert them to Borg ship types for a small resource fee. Another system would be to simply have them get more and more assimilated with age, retaining their old weapons and general stats, but gradually becoming more like a Borg ship. A Sovereign might eventually look like a big Probe, for instance, but keep the quantum torpedoes.
 

PreciousRoy

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Cabal, I love your ideas. I think I'll try to find FO soon and try it out, and then look to see what I can edit with it.

There's not a good way to directly convert hostile ships into resources, but there are options. Ships can gain resources when they rank-up, so when a Borg vessel evolves, the owning player could get some dilithium/metal/whatever. Frequent but small evolutions would help. And there's always the option to simply decommission captured vessels.
I wonder if there would be a way to add a self-deconstruct to all ships that is only visible/useable when the side taking over the ship is Borg...?
 

CABAL

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I wonder if there would be a way to add a self-deconstruct to all ships that is only visible/useable when the side taking over the ship is Borg...?
I think so. It couldn't grant resources, though. The closest alternative would be a replaceweapon with a negative resource cost that swaps the ship with an alternate version that automatically self destructs.
 

PreciousRoy

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So after working with Fleet Ops for a week... and finally getting to the point where I can beat it on hard settings with Defensive strategies... I've decided that it's not for me. It's pretty, it's so darn pretty, but it lacks trade and warp, and I really like these things. As much as I love the warp-in hero ship feature and the amazing detail, I just can't do without trade and warp.

Am beginning with a few tweaks on fighters. If anyone knows of a good mod for the Romulan fighters from Nemesis, please let me know.
 

Terra_Inc

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So after working with Fleet Ops for a week... and finally getting to the point where I can beat it on hard settings with Defensive strategies... I've decided that it's not for me. It's pretty, it's so darn pretty, but it lacks trade and warp, and I really like these things. As much as I love the warp-in hero ship feature and the amazing detail, I just can't do without trade and warp.

Am beginning with a few tweaks on fighters. If anyone knows of a good mod for the Romulan fighters from Nemesis, please let me know.

You mean the "Scorpion" fighters? There's a model on AF for them, but I don't know whether it's good as it has no screenies. I do know that there is a different - and good - version in AOW4 beta. So if the former doesn't satisfy you, I can send you the latter. :thumbsup:
Note that IIRC both of them are ports from different game communities, and as such it's going to be hard to get permissions if you want to release your mod publicly.
 

PreciousRoy

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You mean the "Scorpion" fighters? There's a model on AF for them, but I don't know whether it's good as it has no screenies. I do know that there is a different - and good - version in AOW4 beta. So if the former doesn't satisfy you, I can send you the latter. :thumbsup:
Note that IIRC both of them are ports from different game communities, and as such it's going to be hard to get permissions if you want to release your mod publicly.
Oh, I'd appreciate that Scorprion, Terra, thanks! It's just a personal mod; I won't share more than pics of it, as it's pretty specific to my tastes!
 

Terra_Inc

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Oh, I'd appreciate that Scorprion, Terra, thanks! It's just a personal mod; I won't share more than pics of it, as it's pretty specific to my tastes!
Alright, I'll pack it up and send it to you later today.
 

PreciousRoy

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Update on my personal Mod. Hoping dvatreknerd314 will have a look, one of the things I need help with is of his creation!

I'd been working (truth: playing) Fleet Ops like mad for months, until I finally decided it would be too awkward for me to mod. Plus, I really, really want the Luna class in there. So, back to Future Wars and all the lovely in that.

I've added some new fun stuff to the mix. The Shuttleyard and a number of fighters, including the Aeon fighter and the variants from Invasion. I am really enjoying these ships, in particular the Aeon and the Vigilant are really fun! There was a weapon that didn't load properly, but I've taken that out, and all is well now. But I'm left with two wishes that some of you folks might help me make come true...

1) I wish that the weapon TNC_Inv_EnhancedPulse wasn't quite as powerful. It shreds shields and allows fighters to tear apart great ships. the first time it happened was great, but I'd prefer to keep some of the balance. I'm not sure which numbers to change, and where. I want to change the range of the shots to closer up, and do less than half the current damage rate. What should I change?

2) I was hoping that I could start all fighter in a cloverleaf formation, so that instead of being naturally inclined to point and shoot at something, they are naturally inclined to buzz around being the nuisances they are meant to be. Is there a way I can make cloverleaf the default of fighters as soon as they've been built?
 
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