• Hello and welcome to MSFC. We are a small and close knitted community who specialises in modding the game Star Trek Armada 2 and the Fleet Operations modification, however we have an open field for discussing a number of topics including movies, real life events and everything in-between.

    Being such a close community, we do have some restrictions, including all users required to be registered before being able to post as well as all members requiring to have participated in the community for sometime before being able to download our modding files to name the main ones. This is done for both the protection of our members and to encourage new members to get involved with the community. We also require all new registrations to first be authorised by an Administrator and to also have an active and confirmed email account.

    We have a policy of fairness and a non harassment environment, with the staff quick to act on the rare occasion of when this policy is breached. Feel free to register and join our community.

Discovery Series

Archonon

Master Chief Petty Officer of Starfleet
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
539
Age
46
Has this series even attempted to fix their continuity errors as it has been going on or are they simply now on a complete retcon roll? The 4 Years War against the Klingons was from 2247-2250, not 2256 to whatever long they are doing. Outside of the tech, the uniforms, the story, the state of the galaxy, I mean has anything actually gelled with TOS?

I enjoy watching Trekyards for what it is, I have only discovered them fairly recently. I like it when they interview designers from the series and movies, hearing their insights into their creations. That said, they go out of their way to force an explanation of how something fits in-universe, such as Discovery ships, when they like it and how something goes completely against canon when they don't like it. Nevertheless, they are enjoyable to watch, I even see their fleetyards episodes where they look at designs from other series/movies, respect for them showing B5's Omega Destroyer (My fave B5 ship) and the Minbari Sharlin Warcruiser.
 

kjc733

Wibble
Staff member
Site Manager
Seraphim Build Team
Master Shipwright
Joined
30 Mar 2008
Messages
2,477
Age
39
I feel so bad for the Trekyards guys. They've been trying so hard to come up with explanations for the look of all the DSC Klingon stuff and one of them (I forget his name, I haven't been watching long) just looks so defeated by now.
They're not even bothering anymore. That D7 looks more Wraith than Klingon!
 

Hellkite

Lord of Death
Staff member
Administrator
Seraphim Build Team
Star Fighter
Joined
23 Apr 2006
Messages
7,636
Well it's "STD " it should be avoid at all cost , that been my general rule one for well over 40 years :rolleyes:

Guess the new Klingons are Clapons would explain alot
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
They're not even bothering anymore. That D7 looks more Wraith than Klingon!
Apparently they brought back John Eaves for the Starfleet stuff, but the Klingon stuff is from someone completely new. And frankly, the new guy has no idea what he's doing. And it's not just the ships. I could go on for hours about how terrible the Klingon weapons are, not to mention that the Klingons now seem to favor form over function, which is the exact opposite of the rugged and practical look of everything else Klingon.
 

Jetfreak

Filipino Expat
Staff member
Forum Moderator
Seraphim Build Team
Master of Art
Joined
22 Mar 2008
Messages
2,554
I'm also baffled with the rendering of the space scenes overall. Although the recent JJ films and Trek fan art all over the net is partly to blame too. So I guess the CGI people attempted to go that route.

But there always seem to be an off-color light source that makes the ship scenes look overlit with neon-like shades. Instead of the naturalistic colors we used to see in prime-Trek. Too much blue, purple, etc.

latest


latest


I mean its cool every now and then, but every exterior shot seems to have that exaggerated stylized lighting. Do it too often and it looks like a freakin' amateur show. Trek used to be characterized by its graceful swooping ship scenes, hence the word "beauty shot".


The "D7" redesign controversy pretty much sums up the f**k you attitude of the production to the old fans. And we were just talking about how much more decent the JJ version was haha.

"Well that escalated quickly..."
 

Majestic

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Seraphim Build Team
Joined
17 Apr 2006
Messages
18,272
Age
39
The "D7" redesign controversy pretty much sums up the f**k you attitude of the production to the old fans. And we were just talking about how much more decent the JJ version was haha.

"Well that escalated quickly..."

I guess we should be careful what we complain about huh. :lol2:
 

Majestic

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Seraphim Build Team
Joined
17 Apr 2006
Messages
18,272
Age
39
I've come to discover that After Trek is not a good source of information in any respect whatsoever.

I can't stand it, I didn't even get through the first episode, I wanted to knock out the presenter he's that annoying and clearly not a Trek fan, just someone employed to say how great STD is.
 

dvatreknerd314

Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Clone Force 99
Joined
31 Jul 2012
Messages
1,363
Age
32
I can't stand it, I didn't even get through the first episode, I wanted to knock out the presenter he's that annoying and clearly not a Trek fan, just someone employed to say how great STD is.
The actors/producers and such he brings on usually make it better. Last night's episode was an exception. The makeup artist said something about the new Klingons having 'extrasensory perception organs' hidden under the hair on their heads or something along those lines, which I'm praying will NOT show up in the show.
 

LordChicken

Colonel Sanders
Joined
1 Oct 2015
Messages
213
Age
41
The actors/producers and such he brings on usually make it better. Last night's episode was an exception. The makeup artist said something about the new Klingons having 'extrasensory perception organs' hidden under the hair on their heads or something along those lines, which I'm praying will NOT show up in the show.

I will create my own SciFi universe loosely based off Star Trek if it come to that.
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
The actors/producers and such he brings on usually make it better. Last night's episode was an exception. The makeup artist said something about the new Klingons having 'extrasensory perception organs' hidden under the hair on their heads or something along those lines, which I'm praying will NOT show up in the show.
They said that ages ago. Based on the terminology, I think they mean these small circular pits. It's the entire excuse for them not having hair. CBS has been trying to backpedal on a lot of things, though. I think they're realizing how much they pissed people off.
 

dvatreknerd314

Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Clone Force 99
Joined
31 Jul 2012
Messages
1,363
Age
32
I've got a theory that could make their appearance a little more plausible. If the Klingons with the discovery appearance were a specific ethnicity within the Klingon population that saw themselves as superior or 'more pure' than other Klingons, they likely wouldn't have interbred with other Klingons, giving them a distinct look. Before the Augment virus, they were likely looked down upon in the empire, but as a renewed fear of genetic impurity swept the empire, this group became popular, eventually landing positions in the Klingon High Council.

Idk, just a theory
 

Majestic

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Seraphim Build Team
Joined
17 Apr 2006
Messages
18,272
Age
39
I've got a theory that could make their appearance a little more plausible. If the Klingons with the discovery appearance were a specific ethnicity within the Klingon population that saw themselves as superior or 'more pure' than other Klingons, they likely wouldn't have interbred with other Klingons, giving them a distinct look. Before the Augment virus, they were likely looked down upon in the empire, but as a renewed fear of genetic impurity swept the empire, this group became popular, eventually landing positions in the Klingon High Council.

Idk, just a theory

A little like the Aenar and Andorians, both evolving on Qo'Nos but the STD Klingons evolved in isolation and kept their purity rarely interacting with other Klingons until the Augument virus?
I suppose that would work if they had the other type of Klingons appear in the series as well.
 

dvatreknerd314

Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Clone Force 99
Joined
31 Jul 2012
Messages
1,363
Age
32
A little like the Aenar and Andorians, both evolving on Qo'Nos but the STD Klingons evolved in isolation and kept their purity rarely interacting with other Klingons until the Augument virus?
I suppose that would work if they had the other type of Klingons appear in the series as well.
Considering most of the Klingons seen thus far have been aligned with members of the high council or T'Kuvma, other Klingons not appearing yet makes some sense
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
One problem with that idea is that Kol is of the House of Kor, and closely related enough to Kor to be the one representing them on the Council.

I do have my own crazy idea on how they could solve this continuity debacle. Even if Discovery is the most advanced ship in the fleet, a lot of things just shouldn't be there, like the holodeck. They also have to come up with a solid reason for the spore drive to be abandoned. They could end the season with Discovery's spore drive malfunctioning and dumping them into an alternate universe. Or rather, the prime universe. They could even explain some tech, such as the holodeck, as being reverse engineered from Discovery. I harbor no illusions about the likelihood of this idea, but it could be interesting.
 

dvatreknerd314

Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Clone Force 99
Joined
31 Jul 2012
Messages
1,363
Age
32
I think the tardegrade is gonna go tattle to something bigger and meaner than it, and that something's gonna convince Starfleet to give up the dash drive.
 

Majestic

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Seraphim Build Team
Joined
17 Apr 2006
Messages
18,272
Age
39
One problem with that idea is that Kol is of the House of Kor, and closely related enough to Kor to be the one representing them on the Council.

I do have my own crazy idea on how they could solve this continuity debacle. Even if Discovery is the most advanced ship in the fleet, a lot of things just shouldn't be there, like the holodeck. They also have to come up with a solid reason for the spore drive to be abandoned. They could end the season with Discovery's spore drive malfunctioning and dumping them into an alternate universe. Or rather, the prime universe. They could even explain some tech, such as the holodeck, as being reverse engineered from Discovery. I harbor no illusions about the likelihood of this idea, but it could be interesting.

That's a really interesting idea. I'm curious where they'll go with the series later in the season, after episode 7 apparently they got a panel of Trek fans that could advise them and tell them what they could and couldn't do so hopefully there will be some improvement.
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
That's a really interesting idea. I'm curious where they'll go with the series later in the season, after episode 7 apparently they got a panel of Trek fans that could advise them and tell them what they could and couldn't do so hopefully there will be some improvement.
Can I get on this panel? And can I fire the guy designing the Klingon stuff?
 

Majestic

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Seraphim Build Team
Joined
17 Apr 2006
Messages
18,272
Age
39
Apparently the panel wasn't formed until episode 7 or something. But I agree the art department doesn't have a clue what they're doing. This is the problem with Trek of the 21st century, rather than sticking to existing canon/design, they all what to do whatever they hell they want, which doesn't work with an established franchise. Really these guys would do great at making a new franchise/series but not something that already has 50 years of established designs and lore.

You and me both. :lol2:
 

Jetfreak

Filipino Expat
Staff member
Forum Moderator
Seraphim Build Team
Master of Art
Joined
22 Mar 2008
Messages
2,554
It's a bit funny because some people in Trekcore were calling out that the intro for Discovery had more "Executive Producers" than cast members.

Too many chefs in the kitchen as it were. Despite their "best" efforts, the art department is churning out material akin to an amateur show. I kinda feel sorry for John Eaves mixing it up within that crazybox.
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
I kinda feel sorry for John Eaves mixing it up within that crazybox.
I wonder how this compares to working on ENT for him. I mean, the NX-class looks suspiciously like an Akira because UPN was oddly insistent on using an Akira for the Enterprise.
 

Jetfreak

Filipino Expat
Staff member
Forum Moderator
Seraphim Build Team
Master of Art
Joined
22 Mar 2008
Messages
2,554
Now that you mention it, this strange obsession with the Akira design definitely spawned the NX and now the Shenzou.

I've also caught up with ep6 "Lethe". I'm certainly appreciating the effort with the character pieces and multiple plot threads. It's just the arrogant insistence of the producers that "this is prime universe" ruins the entire thing. Why not make it a new timeline (more creative freedom and less shoehorning) is beyond me.

There's also some off-the-wall speculation that Ash Tyler is actually Voq, surgically altered ala Arne Darvin.
 

Archonon

Master Chief Petty Officer of Starfleet
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
539
Age
46
I think that a lot of the design problems with the Klingons also is a leftover of Bryan Fuller's ideas. Fuller wanted to make the Klingons even more aliens than what they had previously been shown before and while I can appreciate the thought of aliens in Trek being more elaborate than "Human with green skin" or "Human with earring on eyebrow", unfortunately trying to retcon Klingons into something so extravagantly different from what has been established just clashes and rubs the wrong way. It is clear that the production staff has continued with this mindset when it comes to designing the Klingon aesthetic, both for their species as well as their tech.

People are trying to break their heads trying to find a way to rationalize and force fit all of the changes that have been made into the continuity. While I was open to giving them the benefit of the doubt prior to the premiere, the truth is that there is no plan to make this fit into the prime timeline. Nothing from the designs to the narrative are cohesive with what has been shown before, in fact plenty of decisions have actively gone against canon or rewritten it. The decisions going into STD is simply coming from the place of "they look cool" or "Let's put that reference so the audience can remember that this is still Trek" and that's pretty much it.

There is no way that anything in STD takes place between the Cage and TOS. Only thing that works is that STD is an alternate reality. I would much rather hear that Starfleet and the Klingons have all this kind of advanced tech cause they got it from their scans of the Narada than trying to still convince people that somehow 10 years after this show Shatner is taking the much less advanced Connie out for a 5 year mission.
 

CABAL

<< ■ II ▶ >>
Staff member
Administrator
Star Navigator
Rogue AI technocrat
Joined
15 Aug 2009
Messages
3,511
Age
32
There's also some off-the-wall speculation that Ash Tyler is actually Voq, surgically altered ala Arne Darvin.
Someone actually tracked it down and it looks like they're played by the same person under two names. The guy who plays Ash Tyler is Shazad Latif, but his birth name is Shazad Khaliq Iqbal. The guy playing Voq is Javid Iqbal, who it appears did not exist before he was cast as Voq (there is literally no record of his existence at all and no photos of him out of makeup). That they also both have the name Iqbal is important.

There's also this bit from Memory Alpha:

Originally, CBS announced in December 2016 that Latif was to portray the Klingon Kol, a protégé of T'Kuvma. In the final version of the series, Latif went on to portray Ash Tyler, while T'Kuvma's protégé was renamed "Voq" (portrayed by Javid Iqbal) and the name Kol was given to a leader of a rival Klingon Great House (portrayed by Kenneth Mitchell).

All signs point to Shazad Latif and Javid Iqbal being the same person.
 
Top